Black Label Casino - 플레이어의 상금이 취소되었습니다.

good morning,

I have already contacted you in the past about a withdrawal problem with the same casino and unfortunately I'm back to fall for it again.

This Time there were no bonuses in between. I deposited 20 euros and won 3200 euros (sometimes that's okay, right?).

Today they sent me emails saying that the payout was not regular because "the stake exceeds 30% of the value of the deposit amount".

I was sure they would do anything not to pay the winnings, still proving to be a dangerous and fraud site, and I already knew their absurd rule. The problem is, that's not true. I won that money by buying the bonus (40eur) with a stake of 0.40 euros.

Their dispute does not hold up because I have already had other winnings by buying bonuses in the same way and of the same amount, and the withdrawal was accepted without making any problems and mentioning any of this.

So it is not fair because as long as the payout is low everything is fine, while as soon as the payout starts to be high they invent these things.

I can prove that previous withdrawals were approved without fuss.

I am really angry and disappointed because I had a win that I counted on a lot canceled in an instant. Among other things, after 10 days and passes of waiting, during which I was asked to deposit to speed everything up. This incitement to play is a complaint.

I hope something can be done to get even a part of the winnings, although I hate it because I deserve the whole payout this time. This is my money won by playing fair.

I am willing to provide you with anything I can and can serve you.

I leave you something attached (cancellation email, deposit before winning + proof of winning with stake 0.40)

looking forward to your response is in the hope that something can be done,

with regard

Florjan

buongiorno,

vi ho già contattati in passato per un problema di prelievo con lo stesso casino e purtroppo son tornato a cascarci di nuovo.

Questa Volta non ci sono stati bonus di mezzo. Ho depositato 20 euro e ho vinto 3200 euro (ogni tanto può anche andare bene no?).

Oggi mi hanno inviato mail dicendo che la vincita non era regolare perché "la puntata supera il 30% del valore dell’importo del deposito".

Ero sicuro che avrebbero fatto di tutto per non pagare la vincita, dimostrandosi ancora un sito pericoloso e frode, e conoscevo già questa loro assurda regola. Il problema è che non è vero. Io ho vinto quei soldi comprando il bonus (40eur) con puntata pero di 0,40 euro.

La loro contestazione non regge perché io ho già avuto altre vincite comprando bonus nella stessa maniera e dello stesso importo, e il prelievo mi era stato accettato senza fare problemi e ne menzionare nulla di tutto ciò.

Quindi non é giusto perché finché la vincita é bassa va tutto bene, mentre appena la vincita inizia ad essere alta di inventano ste cose.

Io posso provare che i prelievi precedenti erano stati approvati senza fare storie.

Sono veramente arrabbiato e deluso perché mi sono visto cancellare in un attimo una vincita sulla quale contavo molto. Tra l’altro dopo 10 giorni e passa di attesa, durante i quali mi veniva chiesto di depositare per accelerare tutto. Questo incitamento al gioco é da denuncia.

Spero si possa fare qualcosa per avere anche solo una parte della vincita, anche se odio perché io merito tutta la vincita questa volta. Sono soldi miei vinti giocando correttamente.

sono disposto a fornirvi qualsiasi cosa riesco e vi possa servire.

vi lascio già in allegato qualcosa (mail di annullamento, deposito prima della vincita + prova della vincita con puntata 0,40)

restando in attesa di vostra risposta è nella speranza che si possa fare qualcosa,

cordialmente

Florjan

Dear Florjan,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and forwarding all the relevant communication. I’m very sorry to hear about your negative experience. Was the following rule used to cancel your (here):

"Betting rules 

You must bet according to the specific rules of the game you are playing.

We reserve the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings and bonuses for irregular play.

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play.

Purchasing in-game features including but not limited to free spins with a total bet amount of 30% or greater than the value of the deposit or bonus ( the smallest one among them) currently in play.

Using Martingale, double-up and similar systems and strategies.

"Total bets" is defined as the sum of individual bets (lines, chips, hands, etc.) within a round, i.e., the total bet amount when clicking the "spin" or "play" or equivalent button.

In cases where a bonus was received, additional betting rules may apply as defined by the General Bonus Terms & Conditions and Terms & Conditions of the specific bonus."

Could you please confirm that you haven’t activated any bonus when depositing funds into your account? How much was your last deposit, please. Could you forward your game history to petronela.k@casino.guru?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hello, I confirm that I have not activated any bonus for the deposit.

my last deposit was on 05/24 after I was continually asked to deposit to speed up the withdrawal process. I will email what I can find.

thank you

Buongiorno, si confermo che per il deposito non ho attivato alcun bonus.

il mio ultimo deposito é stato il 24/05 dopo che mi veniva chiesto in continuazione di depositare per accelerare il procedimento del prelievo. Allegherò per mail quello che riesco a trovare.

grazie

Thank you very much, Florjan, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej (matej@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck.

Meanwhile, I would like to emphasize, that we consider applying the maximum bet rule to be unfair and predatory when it’s applied to a real money game. 

Hello Florjan.

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

Last time Peter wrote to you to be careful and rather play elsewhere. Unfortunately, this casino has predatory terms aimed at punishing players for actions allowed in most other casinos.

Did you ever seen a brick-and-mortar casino that does not allow you to bet all your money and force you to split the money into 3-to 4 bets? Sure, I understand that with bonus money, but it is nonsense with real money. What is the reason for that? And confiscating winnings for that is completely unfair.

Anyway, I would like to invite the casino representative into the case.

Please explain to us what happened.

Hello,

yes I know it is my mistake to have fallen back into it knowing that I risk seeing my winnings confiscated. I find it incredible to be afraid of not receiving your money when making a withdrawal, yet with this casino it is.

I thank you for trying and I hope that they have a minimum of conscience, which they did not show in chat.

Ciao,

si lo so errore mio esserci ricascato sapendo di rischiare di vedermi confiscate le vincite. Trovo incredibile aver paura di non ricevere i propri soldi quando si fa un prelievo, eppure con questo casino è così.

Io vi ringrazio per provarci e spero che loro abbiano un minimo di coscienza, la quale non hanno mostrato in chat.

Dear All,

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

We understand that Florian has made a complaint regarding the decision made by the Casino and his voided winnings.

 Please be advised that we have checked the gameplay and found the source of the withdrawal request of 3200 EUR made on the 18th of May, 2022 was a deposit of 20 Euros.

Florian's winnings were voided due to irregular play.

The Casino expects all potential players to read all the terms and conditions. Florian's winnings were voided for breaking the 30% Rule.

Please see the snippet from the casino's T&C that Florian had agreed upon registering at the casino:

https://www.blacklabelcasino.com/en/terms

"13. Betting rules 

You must bet according to the specific rules of the game you are playing.

We reserve the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings and bonuses for irregular play.

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play.

Purchasing in-game features including but not limited to free spins with a total bet amount of 30% or greater than the value of the deposit or bonus ( the smallest one among them) currently in play."

Therefore, according to the Terms and Conditions of the Casino, Florian is unable to bet more than or equal to 6 Euro.

According to his gameplay, he has made more than 50 over-bets ranging from €15 to €80 on the games: "Pearl Diver 2: Treasure Chest", "Happy Fish", "Candy Boom" -  this is the reason why the winnings were voided.

We understand Florian's frustration, but, since he broke the Terms and Conditions, therefore, his winnings have been voided.

The finance team has already returned Florian's non-lost deposit of 20 Euros to his casino balance and he already started to play, resulting in insufficient balance to process a withdrawal or a refund. 

We believe the casino has acted in accordance with its T&C when decided to void Florian's winnings, furthermore, we are absolute in the fact that Florian is well aware of the maximum betting rules, as the casino already dealt with his complaint previously in this matter on an older Casino Guru thread. He received a goodwill gesture from the casino, previously, when he breached the maximum betting rules. 

We hope this is clear.

BlackLabel Casino

It is useless to talk to you because you are always right.

You feel sorry and even laugh a little when you quote your rules as you please and as needed.

I have already made more than one withdrawal playing in the same way and never had a problem, since even the effective bet does not exceed 30% (if you buy a 20 euro bonus the bet is 0.20). Unfortunately, you make the rules and interpret them as you like, in this case the win was important and you decided to eliminate it suddenly. If only there was a way to stop your illegal and fraudulent business.

In the meantime, if you are not willing to give me even a part of my deserved win with real money, I take this opportunity to ask you here if you can delete my profile from your site !!! If I ask you in private, pretend nothing has happened, at least you will be able to respect this will?

È inutile parlare con voi perché avete sempre ragione voi.

Fate pena e anche un po’ ridere quando citate le vostre regole a vostro piacimento e a seconda del bisogno.

Ho già fatto più di un prelievo giocando nello stesso modo e mai avuto un problema, visto che anche il bet effettivo non supera il 30% (se compri un bonus da 20 euro il bet è di 0,20). Purtroppo le regole le fate e interpretate voi come vi conviene, in questo caso la vincita era importante e avete deciso di eliminarla di botto. Se solo ci fosse un modo per interrompere la vostra attività illegale e fraudolenta.

Nel frattempo, se non siete disposti a darmi neanche una parte della mia vincita meritata con soldi reali, ne approfitto per chiedervi qua di poter eliminare il mio profilo dal vostro sito !!! Se ve lo chiedo in privato fate finta di niente, almeno questa volontà riuscirete a rispettarla ?

Dear BlackLabel Casino and dear Florjan.

Yes, indeed by being a bonus feature, Florjan breached this casino term:

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play.

Purchasing in-game features including but not limited to free spins with a total bet amount of 30% or greater than the value of the deposit or bonus ( the smallest one among them) currently in play."

We consider this rule unfair when it is applied to players who play without a bonus. There is no such rule in most casinos, and only 3% of all casinos use this rule.

I would like to ask the BlackLabel Casino representative how could be Florjan's gameplay abusive when he plays only with real money?

Please explain why your casino is still keeping this rule and whom you want to punish with this rule. Because, you know, in the majority of casinos, players can do with real money what they want, and I don't see a reason to punish Florjan for his gameplay. If Florjan played in all brick&mortar casinos or most normal online casinos, his winnings would be paid in the same situation. 

Dear Matej,

Thank you for your comments.

It's imperative to understand, that the maximum betting rule on Black Label Casino is explicitly advertised in the casino's Terms & Conditions. Moreover, our live-chat support is always available to assist the players should they have any questions regarding the betting rules. Furthermore, Florian was specifically aware of the rules regarding maximum betting as evident in the previous complaint lodged on Casino Guru on 25 January 2022.

While we respect your opinion, we believe that the judgment about the fairness of the maximum bet rule, or any rule for that matter is rather subjective and unfair without accounting for other factors like the Casino Bonuses, Games, Player Support Structure, etc.

While you are free to play with no maximum betting limit, other players can see higher cashback, better collection of games, ability to play bonus on certain games, etc. with the maximum bet a fair trade-off.

In conclusion, in this case, the casino acted with respect to its terms which were correctly advertised, known by the player, and agreed upon registration by the player.

Regards,

BlackLabel Casino

Dear BlackLabel Casino.

I will not have a problem with this rule if you enforce it by software.

Only a few players read terms and conditions, and in an ideal world, reading terms wouldn't be necessary.

Here is an example:

I deposit €500 and make 10 bets of €50. I lost all my money, but 11 is my lucky number, so I am depositing another €50, and the 11th €50 bet is winning. But by doing this, I broke the rules, and the casino will confiscate my money. Why is that bet so different from 10 bets before? Is it fair? I believe it's not.

and another example:

I am depositing €20 and (with a maximum €6 bet (30%)) winning the jackpot of €50k. With so much money, I don't want to make a low €6 bet, so I decide to make a €50 bet. However, according to the terms, this is wrong, and the casino confiscates all my money. Is it fair? I believe it's not.

And the thing to think about:

What about the players who bet more than 30% of the last deposit and lost the money? Are you returning them the money because the bet was not according to terms? This scheme works only in one direction, and because of this rule, this casino can afford better bonuses or cashback, support etc. So better invest this money to enforce these unfair rules. (not only this one rule is problematic)

In this case, even though Florjan knew about the rule, we are on the player's side. Situations like this shouldn't even happen, and this rule is against our fair gambling codex:

https://casino.guru/fair-gambling

Dear Mateji,

thanks for the support.

Your examples illustrate the big problem perfectly with their one-way rules.

I am one who rather makes several small deposits than one large one. So even the winnings do not derive from the single deposit of 20/40 euros but from several attempts.

Now I have had my account blocked / deleted to avoid falling back into temptation.

In any case, if the casino wants to prove that it still has a little honesty it should at least release a part of the winnings. However, this would not be fair given the winnings, but I would also appreciate a third or half of the winnings rather than having nothing. Among other things, the money lost playing, according to them "irregular", were however accepted and not returned to my account (true).

Caro Mateji,

grazie per il supporto.

I tuoi esempi illustrano perfettamente il grosso problema con le loro regole a senso unico.

Io sono uno che piuttosto fa diversi depositi piccoli che farne uno grande. Quindi anche le vincite non derivano dal singolo deposito di 20/40 euro ma da diversi tentativi.

Ora io mi sono fatto bloccare/eliminare il conto per evitare di ricadere nella tentazione.

In ogni caso se il casino volesse dimostrare di avere ancora un po’ di onesta dovrebbe almeno rilasciare una parte della vincita. Ciò non sarebbe comunque giusto vista la vincita, però apprezzerei anche un terzo o metà della vincita piuttosto che non avere niente. Tra l’altro i soldi persi giocando, in modo secondo loro "irregolare" , sono comunque stati accettati e non rimessi sul mio conto (vero).

Dear BlackLabel Casino and dear Florjan.

We decided to close the complaint as unresolved with classification: against fair gambling codex.

(https://casino.guru/fair-gambling)

Florjan indeed breached a casino rule, but this rule is highly unfair and shouldn't even exist in casinos, as I explained above.