First Casino - 카지노에서 플레이어의 환불액을 잘못 차감했습니다.

On the evening of March 29, 2024, I registered an account with First.ua Casino, successfully provided all necessary documents and confirmations for verification, and made a deposit of 1000 UAH. After three bets and a total win of 13.8 UAH from them, I decided to stop playing and requested a Refund of deposit through the site interface according to the Casino Service Rules and Conditions (clause 7.8.7). During the application, the site's calculator calculated that a tax of 18% and a military fee of 1.5% would be taken from the winnings, specifically from 13.8 UAH, which I agreed to. Then I agreed to the withdrawal commission for the Return of deposit without turnover of funds 200%. I want to note that it amounts to 10%, but it is concealed in the Rules and Conditions. I also confirmed the deduction of the active bonus, as bonuses are not saved when withdrawing funds and the application was created.

At 04:37 on March 30, I received an email notification that the amount to be credited would be 734.49 UAH. After reading, I immediately asked the First Casino Support Manager why the amount was such. More than 10% was clearly withheld from the amount to be credited, to which I received a standard reply that a tax of 18% and a 1.5% military fee were deducted from my winnings. In the chat, they were unable to answer whether the tax was also taken from my returned deposit, so I continued the correspondence on this topic with the casino employee through the official contact email indicated on the site support@first.ua. The staffer who responded to my emails did not consider my explanation that I had ordered a Return of deposit and the entire payment amount isn't winnings. In general, I received standard answers from which one can understand that the withdrawal of funds is the same as the payment of winnings and their actions are legitimate, although I have repeatedly emphasized that this situation is defined in the Casino Rules and Conditions as a Return of deposit and I submitted an application for a Return of deposit according to the Rules indicated on the site and there were no violations in my actions that could cause dissatisfaction with the request.

According to the Law of Ukraine "On state regulation of activities regarding the organization and conduct of gambling," a deposit is not considered winnings, a prize, or income received from a casino and therefore cannot be taxed. This information is also confirmed in the Casino Service Rules and Conditions, but all my hints to support service managers about the terms and definitions were, unfortunately, ignored.

I can also provide all screenshots of the correspondence (unfortunately, when filing a complaint, you can attach no more than five).

Ввечері 29.03.2024 я зареєстрував аккаунт в First.ua Casino, успішно надав всі потрібні документи та підтвердження для верифікації та зробив депозит на 1000 грн. Після трьох ставок і загального виграшу з них 13.8 грн, я передумав грати та зробив заявку на Повернення депозиту через інтерфейс сайту відповідно до Правил та Умов надання послуг казино (пункт 7.8.7). Під час оформлення заявки калькулятор на сайті мені порахував, що податок 18% та 1.5% військового збору будуть стягнуті з виграшу, а саме з 13.8 грн, з чим я погодився. Далі я погодився, зі стягненням комісії за Повернення депозиту без обороту коштів 200%. Хочу зазначити, що вона складає 10%, проте в Правилах та Умовах це приховано. Також підтвердив списання активного бонусу, бо бонуси не зберігаються при виведенні коштів і заявка була створена.

30.03 о 04:37 ранку я отримав на пошту сповіщення, що до зарахування буде 734.49 грн. Після прочитання, одразу поставив запитання менеджеру Служби підтримки First Casino чому така сума. З суми до зарахування було утримано явно більше, ніж 10%, на що я отримав стандартну відповідь, що з мого виграшу був вирахуваний податок 18% та 1.5% військового збору. На питання чи податок стягнутий також з мого повернутого депозиту в чаті відповіді дати не змогли, тому я продовжив переписку з працівником казино стосовно цієї теми через офіційну пошту для зв'язку вказану на сайті support@first.ua. Працівник, що давав відповідь на мої звернення через пошту не брав до уваги пояснення щодо того, що я замовив Повернення депозиту і вся сума виплати не є виграшем. Загалом, я отримував стандартні відповіді, з яких можна зрозуміти, що виведення коштів - те саме, що виплата виграшу і їх дії правомірні, хоча я декілька разів наголошував, що ця ситуація визначається в Правилах та Умовах казино як Повернення депозиту та я оформив заявку на Повернення депозиту відповідно до Правил, що вказані на сайті та в моїх діях не було порушень, що могли б стати причиною незадоволення запиту.

Відповідно до Закону України "Про державне регулювання діяльності щодо організації та проведення азартних ігор", депозит не є ні виграшем, ні призом, ні доходом отриманим від казино і тому не може бути оподаткованим. Також дана інформація знаходить підтвердження і в Правилах та Умовах надання послуг казино, проте всі мої вказівки менеджерам служби підтримки на пункти і визначення термінів, на жаль, були проігноровані. 

Також можу надати всі скріни переписок (на жаль, при публікації скарги можна прикріпити не більше п'яти)

Hello lucky_punch,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with First Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account is already verified and if yes, since when exactly? Why did you request for a refund instead of withdrawing the balance? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about?

Please note that if you country has some specific laws for gambling (or taxes for that), you should contact the authorities of the casino or your county of residence as there is hardly anything we can do regarding legal issues.

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Please be aware: At Casino.Guru, we never ask for your casino account password. While we may request information, we never seek access to your account. Please refrain from sharing your password with any third party. We primarily communicate through official threads, occasionally via email for requested supporting evidence or relevant communication.

Hello Nick,

Thank you for your interest in my complaint.

My account has been successfully verified on 30.03.2024 00:19. This was confirmed by the support manager in chat, and the exact time I could see now because the casino provides the ability of viewing the history of chat correspondence. In any case, I would not be able to make any funds transactions without verification, so I decided to go through verification right before making a deposit.

I decided to refund because I didn't like the bonus policy of this casino. Besides, I had the right to do so, because the Terms and Conditions of the casino states that such an opportunity is available for 24 hours from the moment of deposit. According to the Terms and Conditions of the casino (paragraph 7.8.7) refund and withdrawal of money are made in the same way - through the interface of the site. This is very strange, because such a statement allows the casino to decide either to make a refund, or to pay the amount as a winnings and, accordingly, to collect tax.

My last email to First casino support was on 05/04, in which I tried for the umpteenth time to explain that it was a request for a refund and not a payout of winnings as my deposit is not casino winnings and cannot be taxed, but the message was ignored.

Yes, thank you, I have already contacted the relevant regulator and I understand that you may not have the authority to resolve issues related to special clauses relating to gambling laws of a particular country, but I would like you to be a third party, which will help to at least explain by inviting the casino representative what paragraph of the Terms and Conditions of the casino they were based on acting in this way. 

Best regards,

lucky_punch

Hello lucky_punch,

Would it be possible to forward the communication between you and the casino to nikolas.b@casino.guru? As the issues is country specific due to your laws and taxes, did you contact any authorities regarding this issue?

I hope you understand that we are not layers and we can't really decide on such matters as they are regulated by the government. I would hardly advise to contact your local authorities regarding this issue.

Regards,

Nick

Hello Nick,

I just sent the correspondence with the casino to the email provided.

Also contacted the appropriate authority, but the fact is that in Ukraine, the terms and conditions of the casino must be fully based on the law on the regulation of gambling, otherwise such casinos will not get a license. That is, the situation concerns not only the laws, but also directly the terms and conditions of the casino, which are provided on the site. 

As you can see in my correspondence with the casino I refer only to the rules specified on the site, but I do not get an answer from the managers of Firts Casino, what terms they were guided by taking my deposit as a winning if all the information in the terms says that my deposit is not a winning.

So I would like you to be the third party in this problem that can help get answers from the casino to direct questions that have been ignored.

Best regards,

lucky_punch

Hello lucky_punch,

Based on the communication between you and the casino, we will have to agree with the casino. A deposit refund is processed when the services of the casino were not used and the player requests the exact amount deposited. Once you played and made some winnings, the payment can be considered as withdrawal and therefore the balance are winnings. Also the casino does not deduct taxes manually and the process is automatic according to the law.

From our point of view, the casino did everything correctly. If you still wish to continue resolving the matter with the casino, I really can only advise to search for a legal help.

Is there anything else we could assist you with? If not, we will be forced to close the complaint.

Dear lucky_punch,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Unfortunately, the player has not responded to our messages and questions. Consequently, we are unable to investigate further and have no choice but to reject this complaint.

The player can reopen this complaint at any time.