Joka Room Casino - 플레이어의 상금은 압수되었습니다.

On Saturday April 25th I made 3 x $100 deposits. All deposits were made through poli for the first time. All 3 deposits the bonus was collected from the live chat. The bonus given was the Saturday 50% match offer. I played for 12hours on this money. I played through the bonuses, $9000 was taken and the explanation was it was a no deposit bonus. I asked the casino for the transcript of this conversation and what I received was not everything spoken about in the conversation. I have screenshots evidence of messages the casino altering messages in following conversations. I have a spreadsheet of the game transaction history showing the numbers don’t match to what the casino said happened. The money was taken $5 dollars before the last play-through was complete. I’m unsure why you have made a verdict on my original complaint without even asking my side or asking to see any evidence I have. Jokaroom is not licensed because they won’t provide me this information. I’d like to dispute the $9000 once again and asked for a actual investigation into this matter please, not just a one sided verdict.

Hello Bradley,

We are sorry and I completely understand you weren't satisfied with the result of the first complaint, there might be some misunderstanding on my side. Therefore we decided to give this case one more try to get resolved. Hopefully we will be able to help you.

We will contact the casino and ask for their cooperation in resolving your problem, but, before we do so, would you be so kind and send me your game history? My email address is kristina.s@casino.guru. Also, could you send me the link to the bonus you redeemed, if possible? I would like to read the T&Cs tied to the bonus you played with.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Kristina

Hi Kristina

Thanks for your reply.

I have sent you a email containing the requested documents.

Kind regards

Bradley

Hello Bradley,

Thank you so much for your email, I contacted the Joka Room Casino, so hopefully we will receive some answer soon.

Hello Levi and Joka Room Team,

Thank you very much for time invested in looking further into this case! It is highly appreciated.

Your message was marked as sensitive for containing the player's surename.

I would like to give an opportunity to Bradley to express his opinion as well.

Hi

Thank you for the opportunity.  

As you mentioned, Jokaroom breach an invasion of privacy by displaying my Name to and for the general public to see. I appreciate you taking down the post down as soon as you did which did minimised the hours it was exposed to the public. 

Jokaroom have obviously displayed my name purposely to inflict online trouble upon myself or have there response removed from the view of the general public. It is extremely unlikely this is the first complaint made against Jokaroom there is no doubt in my mind that the Jokaroom are fully aware of the ins and outs of posting a response as well as what they can and can not write in that response. 

I have now removed the name and Jokaroom’s response can be seen below: 

"Good day Kristina,

Thank you for giving us the opportunity and for making contact with us regarding Mr B*******. Mr.******* registered with us on the 14/04/2020 and started like any other player making deposits and having fun. On the 24/04/2020 Mr******** came onto our live support and said that he had a winning and that it went missing and wanted to know what happened to it. Our support notified Mr********* that they will log a call for the missing funds and will get back to him, our support then also sent the request for investigation to the team leader on shift. In these cases when our support log calls with the gaming provider they also inform the relevant department and that would be the securities team for further review. The gaming provider came back the same day informing us that it was not missing winnings and at the same time while the issue was with the team leader it was discovered that it was a No Deposit Bonus Winning restriction. Player was then informed via our support chat that the funds were in fact restricted because of the No Deposit Bonus. Please see below our T&C's

3.5. No-Deposit Bonuses

3.5.1. Players need to register at least one credit card or make a successful prior purchase using any banking method before qualifying for a bonus.

3.5.2. Because NO purchase is required, and the winnings returned could be sizable, the total winnings on all no-deposit bonuses are limited to €/$200. If the player wins more than €/$200, the excess will be removed from the player’s account before the cash-in is fulfilled.

3.5.3. Minimum bonus wagering requirements of fifty times (50x) the bonus amount and minimum cash-in requirements apply.

Please advise if more info is needed will be a pleasure.

Hope the above finds you well.

Regards

Levi"

RESPONSE 1 of 2

The first thing I noticed was how Katerina greeted not only Levi but also greeted the rest of Jokaroom team as well. As the response was only written and signed by Levi gives me the impression either Katerina has either spoken to all of the staff at Jokaroom in regard to this complaint or is greeting them now as they are reading this complaint. 

I believe that Katerina contacting Jokaroom privately and not posting or displaying that information, like all the other messages within this complaint has made it a bit unfair to myself and my defence. Being unaware of the information only left me the one option which was to try determine what was said based on the answers provided by Jokaroom.

The documents provided to Katerina when the application of this complaint was submitted showed the entire conversion between myself and Jokaroom after the money disappeared. If you reference this conversation to the statements made by Levi to what was said in that conversation automatically proves that Jokaroom are lying and trying to cover up this situation.

Levi states that I registered on 14/04/2020 and started like any other player making deposits and having fun. However, I actually signed up in February and didn’t make a deposit until April.

Level states that I contacted them and said "I had a winning and it went missing, I want to know what happened to it". As seen in the transcript, I did not say anything about a winning. I said "I just had 9K go from my account." 

Levi states that the support staff advised me that they had to log a call and will get back to me. The support staff said They have a log a ticket and that we will receive a response after 72hrs.

Levi states that the securities department was then contacted however this is a complete lie. After the 72 hours had past Jokaroom could still not provide me with an answer and after I got frustrated I said I would get my bank frauds department to look into it if they don’t tell me what’s going on. My account was shut down after  this and I was restricted access to it. This is when I was advised that my issue had been transferred to the security department.

Levi states that they can make calls, I was also told I would be called however i was never contacted and when I asked support they said they can not make it receive phone calls as they are working remotely in the Bahamas. 

Levi states the team leader discovered this was a no deposit bonus. I asked to speak to the team leader on this day and I was told that there were no team leaders available that day.

The fact is that this is the first time I have heard any response from Jokaroom and it’s weeks later. No one apparently knew what happened and couldn’t tell me. 

Jokaroom couldn’t tell me there licence number because they operate with no licence so no player protection. I sat there for 24 hours and played the $300 with the bonus terms and had 20 attempts at the jackpot before I won it. The winnings have gone into the pockets of the casino. There are affiliate websites that get a percentage of this money for there assistance in misleading people to signup with fake advertisements and bonuses. There are also affiliate websites who assist in the cover up and handling of complaints in relation to this type of thing who also benefit financially. 

I unfortunately was blindsided this time. I tried to contact 3 affiliate websites that promoted Jokaroom highly within Australia.  It one of them would contact me. I felt my first complaint was also handled with the favour towards Jokaroom. The responses I read now are also easily noticed in the favour of the casino. Everyone knows that money is rightfully mine. 

Yours sincerely 

B.********

RESPONSE 2 of 2

Hello,

Please note my name is Kristina. This was my first interaction with the Joka Room Casino. I contacted them via their email support - jokaservice@jokaroom.com. Then I was contacted by the casino's security team that they would like to see the complaint. They replied really quickly as you can see yourself, so I thanked them for their cooperation. I consider this not only professional, but also polite.

I marked Levi's message as sensitive not for its content, but as I've already mentioned, because it contains your personal data. We use this feature to prevent the public from viewing this information without modifying the message. I am sorry you feel this way, but this is how we handle each complaint.

This was your first complaint:

https://casino.guru/joka-room-casino-player-s-winnings-were-confiscated

I checked your first complaint, which I admit, I judged really fast and closed without further investigation and I am sorry for my mistake. This was because in your message you mentioned 10 free spins and $50 chip, which you forgot to mention in this complaint, and it looked like you won the disputed amount with some No Deposit Bonus. But I am not sure if some No Deposit bonus was credited to you or not, therefore I shouldn't assume that this was the reason for your confiscated winnings and I apologize.

So now my question is for Levi from the Joka Room Casino:

Could you provide more details, please? We would like to know which bonus was the player granted that caused his winnings were confiscated.  You mentioned it was a No Deposit Bonus, but the player claimed the Saturday offer - deposit bonus, as well.

Hi Kristina

I totally apologise about getting your name wrong. This was not intentional, I just made a mistake and overlooked it before posting.

i want to say thank you for the support you have given me and the effort you have put into the case.

I cant imagine how hard your job is with hundreds of complaints to get through so I do understand about the first complaint I submitted.

I guess this situation has made it hard for me to judge who is being genuine or not. I believe I was wrong about casino guru.

Hello,

Please don't apologize, I guess we both jumped into a conclusion too quickly! We from Casino Guru always try our best to help players and situations like this can easily occur and I humbly admitted my mistake. I love my job and helping to successfully resolve a complaint is my favourite part of it all.

So, now let's wait for the casino's reply.

Hello Kristina

Apologies for now only getting back to you. Brad we have tried on numerous occasions to make contact with you. As I mentioned before its in our T&Cs and the system will deduct the funds once the player request a withdrawal, hence i could mention it was a withdrawal. I apologize for the sign up date error it was 14/02/2020 and activation date April 2020. I can assure you that we have been fully forthcoming with the info and feel that based on our terms not fully read and understood by Brad, we cannot be held liable at all.

Regards

Levi

Hi Levi

Im a bit confused about what’s really going on here?

Are you claiming now that I requested a withdrawal and when I requested the withdrawal the system deducted the $9ooo? Your original response clearly points out the money vanished while playing the slot machine. I never had the chance to request a withdrawal.

This makes me wonder why you have now made this one up now? Is it because a withdrawal can be seen in the system for the $9ooo that went missing? I’m sure on the books it has a requested withdrawal and payout for that money but it wasn’t paid out to me that’s for sure.

As for the remarks on you tried making contact with me, I’m not even going to bother. You are not making me angry with your nonsense.

You should be ashamed of what you do to honest people. Karma always wins in the end.

Bradley

.

Hi Levi

Would you mind providing the details and/or differences between a ‘Sign up date’ and a ‘activation date’?

The process in creating/verifying an account with Jokaroom was just the same as it was with any other casino in my opinion. From what I recall this took around 10 minutes to complete.

I was then rewarded the 20 freespins that Jokaroom offer for creating a account and successfully verifying email. I played the Free spins as soon as I signed up. I’m sure the account needed to be activated to do so.

Bradley

Bradk4165 and casino representatives:

We've reached the point where we need a full player's game log to be able to determine if winnings were originated from bonus money or real money.

Please Bradk4165 note, most of the casinos have a priority for which funds are used for bets. Usually when a player places a bet then the money is first deducted from real money, then bonus funds, and as of last no deposit bonus funds. (this is how most of the casinos works – simply because the bonus is something like a second chance to win something).

From what you both write above, it is possible that on Bradk4165's account was still some amount of no deposit bonus funds which become active when player account balance was close to zero. (this is just my theory)

To be sure we need to see the player's log. Bradk4165 already send us his game history, and I would like to know if it is the whole game history or not. If not, would you be so kind and send me your full game history?

We need a full player log from the casino's side too to be able to compare them and confirm the authenticity, so I would like to ask Joka Room Casino to send me the full game log to my email address kristina.s@casino.guru.

Thank you both very much.

Hi Kristina 

How have we reached this point exactly? 

There has been no response from the Jokaroom that I am aware of. Can you please share the response if you have received one? 

Firstly thank you for information, I can ensure you that I am very familiar with multiple types systems and betting systems and how they may work. Although I don't quite understand why or how a complaints and casino professional like yourself would chose to say that, especially after reading the compliant from start to finish. 

It's actually not the time or place to address anything towards me, your promoting and fact that you favour the idea that I'm the one who is oblivious to the situation. Your just going to skip forward because the casino has no answers and just pretend like nothing's happened. What is the 7 day limit to respond all about? 

Recap:

1. We have already discussed winnings and the course of events around the win. 

2. I made a 3 x $100 deposits via Poli - Bank transfer. This transaction done through a company or program called 'How to Pay'. and links with Club Barrter Australia. 

3. The deposits I made that was advertised as POLI transfers are questionable to weather they were real Bank account transfers not the sale of cyrpto currency.

4. At the beginning of the complaint and, at your request, I handed you the game history I was able to get. You may or may not be aware that there is no way for me to extract a PDF or spreadsheet of this data from my account even if I still had access. Unlike the one click option for extracting the data they have at Jokaroom, I had to manually enter each spin one by one and entered into the spreadsheet I provided to. 

I ask you kindly to read over the complaint once again. You should definitely see the multiple unanswered questions I am referring to that the Jokaroom is yet to answer. 

Maybe you could ask them to answer?

Kind regards 

Bradk4165

Hi Kristina,

Concerning the re-cap listed,

The player is clearly not addressing the issue with regards to him not accepting the fact the he accepted the bonus after the last 100 deposit was depleted. As i have mentioned our T&C's are clear on this as mentioned before. The player can at anytime request the gaming history from us as we will gladly supply. The deposit option for Poli is once again a players choice.

Hi Jokaroom

It certainly does look like somebody is not addressing a issue or two or several... I'm not sure that somebody is me though. Enough said, I win! Time to pay me my money.

Can you please advise when this payment will be made and what method will be used to transfer money.

Many Thanks

bradk4165

Hello everyone,

I still haven't received the full game history from Joka Room Casino. This proof is mandatory and we need to see it to move further with this case - judge this complaint fairly and close it accordingly. Please send it to my email address kristina.s@casino.guru.

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to provide the required information in the given time frame, we will be forced to close the complaint.

Hi Kristina

Thanks for your reply.

I just want to confirm who you are addressing when you say "Please, be aware that in case you fail to provide the required information" is this both jokaroom and myself?

Kind regards

bradk4165

Hi Kristina

I asked jokaroom multiple times for the history and they won't co-operate. Jokaroom can you give me the game history? This is the last time I'm asking.

Hi Kristina,

I have e-mailed you the info.

Regards

Levi

Hi everyone,

Bradk4165, we are now waiting for the game history from Joka Room Casino, so hopefully we will receive it soon. I will keep you updated, and I would like to ask you to keep me informed as well (in case there is anything new). Thank you for your patience.

Hi Kristina

Thanks for that. I emailed Jokaroom asking for the info again 3 days ago. I received a reply saying that I would receive the game History in 24-48 hours. However, I still haven't received it yet.

Thanks

Bradk4165

Hello,

We received Bradk4165's game history from the Joka Room Casino. We found out, that after making a few deposits, Bradk4165 asked the live chat support for a No Deposit bonus, and he received 2020/04/24 23:36:21 the bonus amount of $50. The winnings were the result of playing with this bonus, and because no deposit bonuses have a maximum cashout of $200, the rest of the winnings were confiscated.

I believe, that Bradk4165 should receive his game history as well (especially when he requested it) to see himself. So, please, be so kind and send the same document to him too.

Bradk4165, we reviewed all the evidence with our team and at this moment it seems, that the Joka Room Casino proceeded correctly. If you believe that this is not true, please forward me the part of your game history from 2020/04/24 23:36:21 and ± 5 entries (together 11 entries) and we will have a look at it. You mentioned you have to manually enter each spin one by one, but if possible a screenshot will be enough.

Hi Kristina

Thanks for you update.

Do you think it's strange that Jokaroom didn't provide me the history they provided you?

Going back to the original conversations between the live chat that I sent you in the beginning, do you agree that the text were altered?

I would also like to know how you are able to prove the history they provided to you is actually true and correct?

If Jokaroom were honest and in the right, why would they be dishonest about so many factors through out the case?

Another factor that has me confused is why they didn't know what happened to the money. Then they made up lies about the provider being the one that informed them it was a no deposit bonus when they did not.

Is there a way to reach out to the provider to confirm that there allegations are true? There is also a couple of other questions that would be good to ask the provider are:

1. Did they pay out the Jackpot win to the casino?

2. Did the depicted money go back in to progressive limit of the Slot machine (King of Kings).?

Is there a way I could contact the Provider to ask these questions?

As for me providing the game history to you, I believe I have advised 3 times now that I was locked out of my account before I could extract the data and the history I provided in the beginning is all that I have.

I could tell from the very beginning that I would not receive the money no matter how much evidence I supplied to you that proved the casino was a rogue casino.

This complaint is the very beginning of my road to getting the money back. There are still fraud protection agency's that can be used to retrieve the money I deposited at least and government departments that will be contacted in attempt to get this casino shut down.

I've been playing online slots for 20 years and this is the first time I have been a victim of fraud and it's really sad to see this type of activity actually still happening.

I appreciate your help and time and effort spent on the case. Thank you.

Kind Regards

Bradley K******

Bradk4165,

Yes, I agree that you should be the first to receive the game history, but please understand that this is not my decision, but the casino's. Therefore I asked them in my last message to send it to you too. In your email you mentioned that you received it, so please forward it to my email address. We asked you for it to compare the one we received from the casino to yours to make sure it is accurate.

Please note, we compared your live chat screenshots to screenshots provided by the casino and they are the same - you asked for a No Deposit bonus from Jacob and it was given to you a few minutes later - $50, which is visible from the game history.

Unfortunately, we have no experience with contacting the game providers, therefore I cannot advise you properly on this option. I am not sure if contacting the game provider would help you, but you can try it. I found out that the game you are referring to is from Relax Gaming.

Trust me Bradk4165, we are always trying our best to help players, and we reviewed everything you provided multiple times and it seems that you won the amount by playing with the no deposit bonus Jacob gave you.

I am really sorry you feel like we are not proceeding correctly, but please understand that our decisions are always based on facts and evidence.

So now, please, send me the game history you received, and anything else that could support your case in your favor and we will review all the evidence with our team again and compare it with the evidence from the Joka Room.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-24Iu3Zem5DBlXLjRsC9YJBRZTltxBf-6OSN-TD0m_c/edit?usp=drivesdk

Hi Kristina

Please copy and paste this link into Google search.

I'm sure no more proof is needed.

Dear Bradk4165,

I am sorry, but I cannot open the document, I have to request access from you I guess. Could you please send the document to my email address, if possible?

Hi Kristina

All done. Sent to your email.

Thanks

Hi Kristina.

How's the examination going? I notice casino guru have put the reputation back up with jokaroom. Is this because they will pay back the money? Levi asked for my phone number again which I had change due to work reasons. I still haven't received a call though.

Thanks

Hello Bradk4165,

Sorry for the delay. The rating was influenced by their other complaint, which has been successfully resolved.

We fully reviewed all the evidence again with our team. From your game history we see, that 3 deposits were credited to your account (which matches your receipts), all deposited money was lost and then the amount of $50 was credited. From this $50 you won the disputed amount - $9,000. Could you please confirm this?

Hi Kristina

As mentioned the last deposit of $100 was matched with a 50% deposit bonus. The amount that went into my account was $150. I'm unsure what you mean by $50 going into the account. I understand casino guru are in partnership with jokaroom to assist them in the cover up of the scam they are running. Can you just let me know if the money will be returned or not.

Hi guys,

The above info is incorrect. The $100 deposit was made and played out. Then client was given a NDB of $50 after his $100 was played out.

Hi ?? Who is this??

Hi Kristina

Can you come up with a verdict so the case can be closed. You seem to be continuously dragging out the situation even after all the proof has been given to you.

It is obvious to everyone who has seen this complaint that jokaroom is a rogue casino who are just running a scam and it is also obvious casino guru are there to assist this scam stays going.

I'd definately rather the $9000 be paid out as I won that fair and square. If your thinking I won't do anything I've said I would do you might have to think again.

I've been busy lately but I'm not going anywhere. Your starting to really make me angry now so if you don't make your mind up in the next 48 hrs I'm just going to take that I have lost this case and won't be getting the money back.

Bradk4165

Hello Bradk4165,

We went multiple times through your case with our team, trying to find exactly what happened to judge this case fairly. Even based on the evidence you provided, it seems that your winnings were the result of playing with a No Deposit Bonus of $50, which you received by asking the live chat support.

Also, the casino provided the evidence, that you played with No Deposit chip, which was added to your account 2 minutes after you asked the live chat for it.

In addition to all the evidence, we checked the casino's bonus T&Cs, because you were supposed to fulfill the wagering requirements of 50x, which you, I believe, do not mention in this complaint, but you stated it in your first complaint:

https://casino.guru/joka-room-casino-player-s-winnings-were-confiscated

I found this in the Bonus T&Cs:

"2.4.2. 50 times (50X) play-through on the welcome offers and any match bonus of 100% or more."

"3.5. No-Deposit Bonuses

3.5.1. Players need to register at least one credit card or make a successful prior purchase using any banking method before qualifying for a bonus.

3.5.2. Because NO purchase is required, and the winnings returned could be sizable, the total winnings on all no-deposit bonuses are limited to €/$200. If the player wins more than €/$200, the excess will be removed from the player’s account before the cash-in is fulfilled.

3.5.3. Minimum bonus wagering requirements of fifty times (50x) the bonus amount and minimum cash-in requirements apply."

This means, that if you were supposed to fulfill the wagering requirements of 50x bonus, you were either playing with the match bonus 100% or more (which you believe you played with 50% match bonus), or with a No Deposit Bonus. (But, of course, I have to mention, that each specific bonus can have its own wagering requirements).

Based on the evidence from you and from the casino, we are rejecting this complaint.

I truly apologize, if you feel like our decision isn't fair, we tried to give it a chance. We reviewed all the evidence the best that we could, but there is nothing more we can do without running in circles, and everything shows that you played with a No Deposit Bonus. In cases like this we always recommend the players to try contacting the licensing authority, but, unfortunately, the Joka Room Casino operates without an official license.

Again, sorry we were not able to help you with this one, but we believe that the casino proceeded correctly.