Casino Extreme - 플레이어는 상금을 받기 위해 고군분투합니다.

Hello Smokedamaged,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Casino Extreme. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise since when is this issue ongoing? How did they respond once you let them know that the bonus conditions were met? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about?

Please note that based on our policy, the casino should never void the player's balance due playing a restricted game as the casino should prevent the access to such games.

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

The issue began last night/early this morning 10/6/22. Casino Extreme has only replied with the emails saying I violated even though I was clearly done with the coupon when inplayed the game THEY allowed access too, indicating coupon completion

i have the entire chat transcript available but inwill

have to access casino guru through my laptop to format it and post it . The size is also over the 5000 character limit so it will have to be two posts

Dear Smokedamaged,

Please forward any proof or communication you have with the casino to nikolas.b@casino.guru.

Ok I will, couldn’t make it format properly in the chat window here.

Ok it has been sent

Thank you Smokedamaged for all the information. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Matej (matej@casino.guru) who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

It took the entire week for that? Ok then.

Hello Smokedamaged.

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

I would like to invite a casino representative into the case:

Dear casino representative, could you please check what happened?

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

They aren’t responding because they know they are in the wrong here. They don’t deserve N extension. Obviously they do not care about their ratings or doing right by their players when their system fails to work properly and prohibit games that allegedly were unable to be played. I mean it’s only 33 dollars, they have the money to pay that out 1000 times in a day and not even notice it.

Hello,

Hope you are all well,

Thank you for reaching out to us with your concerns. 

Regarding the incident that occured on the 6th of October, we will try to explain in detail why the player wasn't able to finalize the withdrawal.

The player has indeed received 30 free spins for completing the review of the new Vegas XL game on Casino Extreme's Blog. The bonus came with the following terms:

- Blog Promotion - 30 Free Spins Reward for the game review;

- Code: *******;

- Value: 30 Free Spins on New Game;

- Wagering: 45x;

- Max cash out: $50;

- Playable on: Slots, Non-Progressive Only;

- Available from OCT 6 - OCT 13.

Upon playing the 30 free spins, the player's winnings were $2.05. The 45x wagering requirements apply to said winnings, hence, the player was required to wager a total of $92.25 in order to meet the playthrough requirements.

At one point during the playthrough, the player's balance dropped under $1.00, and at this moment the coupon restrictions have been removed by the system. The coupons are set to convert if the balance drops below $1 by our software provider. Without this setting in place, every coupon would remain locked and require the player to actively play until the balance is 0. That means no player would be able to play with another coupon or with bonus free deposit until we manually remove the coupon. 

Due to this setting, Casino Extreme explicitly states in the official Terms & Conditions that the terms of the promotion remain in full effect even after the playable balance has dropped under $1.00.

https://casinoextreme.eu/terms-and-conditions

7. BONUSES AND PROMOTIONS

7.1. General Bonus and Promotion Rules

v. "Once a bonus is claimed, the terms of that bonus step into effect immediately. These terms remain in full effect until a new Fund Action (Deposit or Bonus) is processed to your account and after the bonus has been cleared from your balance. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Wagering has been met. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after a Withdrawal is processed. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Playable Balance drops below $/€ 1. Depositing on top of your existing bonus balance does not void the Bonus Terms. Any violations of the terms while they are in effect, may result in all winnings being voided as per the Terms & Conditions."

At this point, the player has wagered a total of $69.00, which meant that additional $23.25 had to be wagered in order for the playthrough requirements to be met. Therefore, the player's withdrawal request has been canceled and the funds have been returned to the player's account in order for the wagering requirements to be met.

Unfortunately, the player has decided to proceed to play Blackjack, which, according to the terms of the VEGAS30 promotion, is not allowed. 

Upon submitting the subsequent withdrawal request, it has been established that a restricted game has been played, hence, the winnings had to be voided. The player also received a full explanation by email as to why, unfortunately, the winnings were voided.

We would also like to emphasize that the player had received multiple free promotions in the coming days and had received payouts from more than one, when the requirements of each promotion were met without any violations. Hopefully, this proves that the incident explained above is an isolated issue and with the clarification provided, it should not occur again.

Should any additional explanation be required, please do not hestitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,

Casino Extreme Team

The FACT remains that I played the 90 dollar playthrough WITHOUT playing blackjack, I requested the withdrawal and waited. Blackjack was only played AFTER ALL PLAYTHROUGH was completed and I was waiting on my cash out which should have been delivered the first instance. Blackjack didn’t get played until after the SECOND payout request, which was ALLOWED BY YOUR SYSTEM BECAUSE ALL OF MY COUPON REQUIREMENTS WERE MET.

The burden to restrict games lies ON THE CASINO, not the player: Up until after my withdrawal request was made, BLACKJACK AND ALL TABLE GAMES AND VIDEO POKER WERE BLOCKED. Allowing the games to be played can only be indicative of the coupon completion. Not ONE CENT of my playthrough or any dollars extra requested in the cash out was acquired through a game which was supposedly PROHIBITED. The casino failed to properly enforce their own rules and/or admit a system malfunction

At the point of my alleged playthrough of only 69 dollars, explain how I was even able to make a cash out request when i had 0.00 withdrawable money before the coupon started. Also, any further play and the outcome of that play are absolutely irrelevant to.te issue at hand. Point being , if my playthrough was not finished, my playthrough balance would be anything other than 0.00 which it was, plus inwoukd have 0.00 available to.request for cash out so it would not have even been possible. Clearly you can see how this falls on the casino

Dear Smokedamaged.

We are still working on this case, but we decided to discuss it in our Wednesday internal meeting. So please be patient until then.

I am trying my best too. Clearly I'm not in the wrong, all the evidence is there. The duty to restrict is with the casino

Hello Matej,

Hello Smokedamaged,

We hope that all is well,

Please note that the term 7.1.v, that was already mentioned above, clearly states the following:

"The terms remain in full effect until a new Fund Action (Deposit or Bonus) is processed to your account and after the bonus has been cleared from your balance. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Wagering has been met. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after a Withdrawal is processed. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Playable Balance drops below $/€ 1."

As stated previously, your balance dropped under $1.00, hence the visible restrictions were removed. Nonetheless, the terms remain in full effect. The playthrough requirements have subsequently been met, still, the terms remain in full effect. You have made a withdrawal request, the terms, again, remain in full effect.

By playing Blackjack while the terms are in full effect, unfortunately, you have violated said terms.

We understand the dissatisfaction with having your winnings voided due to a simple oversight from your side, however, the decision had to be made in order to maintain fair play conditions for all active casino players.

We hope that the term 7.1.v. has now been made completely explained and that no further elaboration is needed.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind Regards,

Casino Extreme Team

I don’t believe that my balance ever dropped under $1 for starters, like there was some last bet Hail Mary win at the last second. Yeah that always happens. You guys are wrong, point blank. If the coupon is voided in the first place then you shouldn’t have allowed the multiple attempts at a cash out, you should have stopped it at the first request instead. Or did I go to zero AFTER the first attempt to cash out where you were hoping to rely on the blackjack restriction failure to get you out of paying? You should have granted it at the first attempt when I played the playthrough down to zero. Have some self-respect and at least admit that your system has a glitch in it if nothing else. This is absurd. It’s $33.

Oversight from my side??? You’ve got to be kidding me.

Dear Casino Extreme representative and dear smokedamaged,

We had an internal meeting in which we decided that despite the casino has technically right. (casino acted accordingly to terms) In this case, the experience of the player is terrible.

The casino's system doesn't count with possibilities when a player wins a lot of money from a value lower than $1 (during playing with a bonus).

We would like to recommend the casino consider removing the automatic cancellation of the bonus when the player balance reaches $1 and instead use a dialogue window with a choice to forfeit a bonus or keep it (but later, this bonus will need to be removed by support) 

In this case, because smokedamaged didn't intentionally breach the terms and from his description, he believed that he had already wagered the bonus. And also, considering that he needed to lower his balance only to 50% to trigger the $1 rule, we believe he should be paid. 

Thank you Matej, I agree with the suggestion of the dialog box. Although every casino has a link to terms and conditions, be honest with yourself, practically no one goes and reads the fine print to a T, especially when they have been playing with the casino for the better part of a year . The player should be able to rely definitively on the amount listed in the playthrough balance. As forementioned, since there was no previous balance before redemption of the coupon, if the coupon was voided for whatever means, the player should immediately be returned to a 0.00 balance and not given the option to cash out with thenwinnings from the cancelled coupon, instead of having To be put through all this

Ohhh how classy is this move? Since Casino Guru voted in my favor,(literally LAST NIGHT) Casino Extreme has now gone and pulled ALL my coupons and isn’t allowing me to use them anymore. How professional of you guys, I’ve played there over a year and they decide to behave in the absolute most unprofessional manner possible with what can’t be seen as anything other than a tantrum. Shame,

Hello Matej,

Hello SmokeDamaged,

We acknowledge the viewpoint of Casino Guru representatives, however, we must return to the Terms stated numerous times above. Casino Extreme always acts according to its Official Terms & Conditions, to which the player agreed to upon joining. 

The term 7.1.v. is an example of a term which has to be applied without exception in order to maintain fair play conditions for all active users. The terms of the promotion remain in full effect even after the playthrough has been met. They remain in full effect after a withdrawal request is made and all up until the withdrawal is finalized and all balance has been cleared from the player's account. The rule in question is one that has been in place ever since Casino Extreme started operating, and it is not a recent addition. As the player emphasized, he has been an active member for the better part of the year hence, the Casino's viewpoint is that the rule should have been familiar. Oppose to what the player stated, the term in question is not written in fine print and it is always visible in more than one place - The Cashier, the email in which the bonus is provided, the official Blog and finally, in the Official Terms & Conditions. This way, we try to make sure our new players are fully aware of this quintesential rule.

We also appreciate the suggestion that instead of removing the coupon automatically, a dialog box should appear, and the player is then required to have the coupon removed manually. However, this is something that can only make the User experience deteriorate, as with the number of active players Casino Extreme has at every moment, the Customer Service simply would not be able to assist all players in a reasonable time. 

As stated above, we are working closely with our Gaming provider on updating the system behavior with coupons. However, these things are not in our hands, and we are only able to submit a request for an update and wait for the outcome of the same. Of course, if any of Casino Guru representatives have influence to expedite such things, we will be more than happy to collaborate.

With everything stated, the Casino's stance is that the Terms & Conditions have been upheld to and that everything has been done to assist the player in overcoming the inconvenience by providing multiple exceptional bonuses. The Casino feels that the initial decision was just and that it requires no rectifying.

Kind Regards,

Casino Extreme Management

Dear CasinoExtreme,

By ‘providing multiple exceptional bonuses’ and ‘assisting me to overcome the inconvenience’.

are you referring to completely stripping away all bonuses, deposit and non? Because that’s what you did too, oddly timed considering that Guru rules in my favor on the EXACT DAY you decide to do that. You should be ashamed of yourself for bold face lying on a public forum and deserve to have your reputation fully stripped down to a 1 rating.

I fail to see in any way how you have helped me to overcome the inconvenience. To be honest, you are the sole cause of the inconvenience. You want to help me get over the inconvenience?? Pay me what you owe me and we can then be on our separate ways. I will gladly never patronize your, or any of your sister casinos, for the rest of my life, as soon as I paid what is mine. I promise $33 means a lot more to me than it does to some off-shore corporate mafia backed Casino. The $33 is a lot less than its gonna cost the casino in bad PR. My fiancé is a highly followed instagram influencer who I am sure will be more than happy to allow me to use her platform to ensure that every potential new customer knows to stay away from your site. Some people have to do thjngs the hard way.

Dear SmokeDamaged, please know that we have a zero-tolerance against any threatening.

As I wrote, the casino has technically right. 

SmokeDamaged, you gained an unfair advantage when you started to play restricted games. Still, we recommended the casino pay you because of the low initial value when you started playing and the fact that you non intentionally breached the casino rules.

You will lose if you take this case to the regulator or court.

Our judging is based on how gambling should look and not how gambling works now. That's why we are on your side.

Because we didn't convince the casino, we must close the case as unresolved with the classification: Against fair gambling codex.

The case will be visible so other players can read about what to avoid, but the impact on the rating is minimal.

Dear Casino Extreme Management, I understand that not everything is under your control. However, please at least consider creating a message window when the players playing with the bonus reach a balance of $1 that the bonus was removed but still, the rules apply to the remaining $1.  

If you notice the numbers, I NEVER used blackjack to contribute one penny towards my playthrough. I completed my playthrough 100% legitimately, that’s why I was so mad about this whole thing. By the time thst I played my very first game of blackjack, my playthrough had been completed for some time. My cashout had already been requested and playthrough absolutely complete before I played a single hand of blackjack. When I played blackjack was essentially in the waiting period between cashout request and receival (which did not happen).

So for a correction, I did NOT receive any sort of unfair advantage at all. Maybe knowing that will help you to understand my frustration more. Thank you

Dear SmokeDamaged, the casino representative wrote (27 Oct 2022 20:43):

Upon playing the 30 free spins, the player's winnings were $2.05. The 45x wagering requirements apply to said winnings, hence, the player was required to wager a total of $92.25 in order to meet the playthrough requirements.

At one point during the playthrough, the player's balance dropped under $1.00, and at this moment the coupon restrictions have been removed by the system. The coupons are set to convert if the balance drops below $1 by our software provider. Without this setting in place, every coupon would remain locked and require the player to actively play until the balance is 0. That means no player would be able to play with another coupon or with bonus free deposit until we manually remove the coupon. 

Due to this setting, Casino Extreme explicitly states in the official Terms & Conditions that the terms of the promotion remain in full effect even after the playable balance has dropped under $1.00.

v. "Once a bonus is claimed, the terms of that bonus step into effect immediately. These terms remain in full effect until a new Fund Action (Deposit or Bonus) is processed to your account and after the bonus has been cleared from your balance. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Wagering has been met. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after a Withdrawal is processed. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Playable Balance drops below $/€ 1. Depositing on top of your existing bonus balance does not void the Bonus Terms. Any violations of the terms while they are in effect, may result in all winnings being voided as per the Terms & Conditions."

At this point, the player has wagered a total of $69.00, which meant that additional $23.25 had to be wagered in order for the playthrough requirements to be met. Therefore, the player's withdrawal request has been canceled and the funds have been returned to the player's account in order for the wagering requirements to be met.

It means that the restriction for blackjack was removed because your balance dropped below $1. However, you should still wager another $23.25, and that's why you got an unfair advantage (but you didn't know about it)

I played that through as well before I played blackjack, I never had an advantage. I completed both playthrough requests before I played blackjack

I had played through requested the cash out then deliberately waited just bc I have had an issue before where the improper amount was displayed in the playthrough remaining, I completed it the second time still fully legit, the blackjack was played after I was 100% done with all wagering, I wish I had a copy of my account history to prove it. If I didn’t do everything accordingly I wouldn’t be so adamant about this little bit of money

Dear casino representative.

Could you please provide me with SmokeDamaged's game log?

(matej@casino.guru)

Thanks

Yes please do, and in that log indicate exactly where my playthrough finished, you can see the bet value on every bet and add it up to double check the balance, I know for a 100%. fact I didn’t play blackjack until I was well done with all playthrough. But besides that, the representative has already made it very clear the casino does not care about the opinion of others. I’ve already accepted the fact that I just lost on it. I might m as well start a gofundme aimed at other disgruntled players who have been wrongfully denied their cash outs. But then again how are they gonna donate when they weren’t given their money either 🙁

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

I appreciate your willingness to see this through Matej. I have given up on Casino Extreme and advise everyone I know that plays to do the same. It’s a sad state of events. Thank you again. The casino won’t provide it bc they know I’m not lying, they shafted me, it’s just what it is

Hello Matej,

Hello Smokedamaged,

Hope you are well,

Matej, please note that we have emailed you directly sent with the requested information. We hope that the email provides enough information as to what happened.

Should any additional information be needed, please let us know.

Kind Regards,

Casino Extreme Management

Dear SmokeDamaged and the casino representative,

I checked all the evidence, and I believe that SmokeDamaged is arguing so much because he probably started to play blackjack after he finished the wagering. (unfortunately, from the logs that the casino representative sent, it is clear that SmokeDamaged played blackjack before he made a withdrawal, but if it was before wagering was completed or not is unknown) However, the point of the casino is that players shouldn't play restricted games until the withdrawal is processed (which cancels the bonus).

We are always trying to be fair, so let's find out if SmokeDamaged played blackjack after the wagering was completed first.  

We believe that bonus terms should be applied only during the wagering. However, some special conditions exist when it is necessary to hold them till the withdrawal. 

Dear casino representative, could you please explain why the restrictions on games are necessary until the withdrawal?

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

I contacted again the casino via email. I am waiting for detailed game log.

The withdrawal request was made before any blackjack was played. There was an unnecessarily long period between the cashout and the approval for some reason, much longer than usual. I e never denied that I played blackjack. But I played blackjack ONLY because I was allowed to and that was because my playthrough balance was 0.00 meaning I had finished my playthrough. At no point did I drop below one dollar and then somehow miraculously come back on 20 cent spins. Yeah that happens all the time. But I’m all jk stay Matej; even if they do show you what I say is the truth, they still won’t pay bc they are not straight up with their players.

As you stated, the duty to restrict is ON THE CASINO. if they didn’t want me to play until after the withdrawal has been processed, then THEY SHOULD HAVE KEPT IT DISABLED UNTIL AFTER THE WITHDRAWAL WAS ISSUED

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Now they are trying to stiff me on a coupon I rightfully earned, the agents have been pretty clearly lying and giving me the cold shoulder since this was initiated. Take a moment to look through these screenshots and behold the pettinessI’m either blatantly cut off with no answer or lied to about the it team working on it then it goes to ‘oh we can’t process anything right now’. Give me a break dude. After all this bs I still go to their site and that’s how they do me

Dear SmokeDamaged.

I can imagine how you feel. However, without checking your game log, we are unsure if the amount has already been wagered.

Because of that, we are closing the complaint as unresolved, with the status: uncertain case.

Hopefully, the casino will reopen the case after the holidays and provide us with a detailed game log.

Hello Matej,

Hello SmokeDamaged,

Matej, please accept my apology for the delayed reply. In our opinion, we provided sufficient information as to what occurred in the initial situation. Nonetheless, I will explain again.

With the bonus VEGAS30, the player is allowed to play Non-Progressive slots only. At one point, due to our system settings, the coupon restrictions were removed as the player's balance dropped below $1.00. After which, the player has started playing Blackjack, a restricted game, at some point.

Due to this setting, Casino Extreme explicitly states in the official Terms & Conditions that the terms of the promotion remain in full effect even after the playable balance has dropped under $1.00.

https://casinoextreme.eu/terms-and-conditions

7. BONUSES AND PROMOTIONS

7.1. General Bonus and Promotion Rules

v. "Once a bonus is claimed, the terms of that bonus step into effect immediately. These terms remain in full effect until a new Fund Action (Deposit or Bonus) is processed to your account and after the bonus has been cleared from your balance. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Wagering has been met. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after a Withdrawal is processed. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Playable Balance drops below $/€ 1. Depositing on top of your existing bonus balance does not void the Bonus Terms. Any violations of the terms while they are in effect, may result in all winnings being voided as per the Terms & Conditions."

Unfortunately, as the player has wagered a portion of the winnings on a restricted game, the Casino has voided the winnings, following the Term listed above.

Regarding the last situation the player mentioned above, he was denied a free bonus in accordance with the terms of the specific promotion he requested. Namely, bonuses acquired from participating in our Blog promotions, have a very clear requirement: The last action needs to be a deposit.

https://casinoextreme.eu/blog/promotions/vote-for-the-best-slot-of-the-year-2022-to-win-40-fs/

The player has, from the last successful deposit redeemed 3 non-deposit bonuses and made a staggering 94 attempts of claiming a non-deposit bonus by entering various codes acquired online. Although the Terms of the Casino clearly state that only one free promotion can be claimed in between deposits.

Due to that, the Customer Service agent has denied the bonus and as stated in the terms of the promotion and explained that a deposit is required in order to redeem the bonus.

In conclusion, The Management of Casino Extreme is of the opinion that the player has received more than a fair treatment, reflected in the sheer number of bonuses provided in the last 5 months, and therefore considers an exception in the initial matter unbefitting.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind Regards,

Luke Newman

Casino Extreme Management

Hello Luke.

Thank you for the clarification.

The whole problem was that SmokeDamaged claims that when he first tried to withdraw, and the withdrawal was denied, he finished the wagering on slots and only after that he played restricted games. However, if his winnings are from 3rd free bonus in the row, the case is clear, and we don't need to check anything.

Dear SmokeDamaged, could you please confirm that before this free bonus, you claimed two others and that you won from 3rd free bonus in a row without making a deposit?

Hello Matej,

I do have to apologize if I haven't been clear enough. The player claimed 3 promotions in a row after the incident in question. However, the bonus from which the winnings in question were made was actually the 12th in a row, without a deposit in between.

Although our terms state that only one no-deposit bonus is allowed in between deposits, the rule is often ignored in favor of our players to help them experience our instant withdrawals.

Once again, as the player already had prior withdrawals, the Casino felt that an exception in this case would be unfitting.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind Regards,

Luke Newman

Casino Extreme Management

Dear Smokedamaged,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Based on the casino's information, and because Smokedamaged didn't react, we decided to reject this case as unjustified.