21 Prive Casino - 플레이어의 계정이 차단되었습니다.

I signed up for an account at this casino legitimately, fairly and not breaking any of their terms and conditions. Within 30 minutes of creating the account I deposited a total of £500 and made a withdrawal request (£200 winnings). I kept checking the withdrawal status and was in pending for nearly 24 hours. Suddenly I'm not able to login to my account and see that it's blocked. Obviously worried I contact support through live chat that told me to check my emails. I seen that I had an email from the risk and compliance team notifying me that my account had been shut down for breaking their terms and conditions and my WINNINGS would be confiscated. Upset with this, I asked them to advise on which term or condition I had allegedly contravened. To this day they haven't engaged with me to tell me what point I had violated and therefore have stolen money from me. I've sent multiple emails to their support team and started the complaints process to which I've had no response. I then randomly got a £300 withdrawal to my PayPal which is strange because that doesn't even match with any deposit or withdrawal amount and seems like they've just tried to pay something small to make me go away. I've queried this asking for my other £200 (deposit) and additional £200 (winnings) to be returned to my withdrawal account promptly. They keep on telling me to refer back to the original email from the compliance team which simply just states vaguely that I've broken their terms and conditions but they refuse to explain how or point to which ones. To this day they still owe me £400 but I even suggested that they just return the remaining £200 in deposits to close down the matter quickly and they just won't respond. This is simply theft. They cannot just take money from you without explaining why they've taken it. Clearly in their own terms they state WINNINGS can be confiscated but they've not just taken my winnings they've even taken my fairly staked deposits which is completely unfair and immoral. Please can you help me recover the £200 in deposits owed and if possible the additional £200 in winnings which they haven't been able to adequately justify why they're not paying out. Thank you!

Dear Smythee,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Did you activate any bonus on top of your deposit? Did you manage to pass the verification before the casino blocked your account?

Could you please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru? Alternatively, you can post it here. 

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Kristina

Hi Kristina.

Thanks so much for your reply. To answer your points below:

No I did not elect for any bonuses when I signed up. Straight deposit and gameplay through blackjack. The casino had not asked for any verification information from me at this point as I had passed their electronic verification system and hadn't reached any threshold to require additional verification at this point. They can't really use this as an excuse to withhold the money because they've never even asked for additional information.

I made a total of £500 in deposits legitimately and fairly. I requested a £700; withdrawal which includes my £500 deposit and £200 in winnings. a day later I found out my account is blocked and I've no longer access and they inform me that I've broken term 13 of their terms and conditions which literally translates to "we can close down your account at any time for any reason" this is what they quoted to me in their correspondence. Completely vague and unhelpful. However that does not give them the right to withhold or confiscate any of my winnings or withdrawals.

I then randomly received a withdrawal to my PayPal of £300. I never even deposited or requested such an amount and this was clearly a plucked up figure to return to me in an attempt to silence me. However, they still owe me at minimum £200 in deposited funds and £200 in winnings.

To date they have not been able to provide a satisfactory explanation as to what alleged terms and conditions I'd actually contravened which justifies confiscation my deposits and winnings despite asking them to do so. They continue to ask me to refer back to the original and unhelpful vague email I was sent by their compliance and risk team which doesn't provide any information.

I will forward you all the correspondence via email now. I'll just forward it all on if that's okay?

Many thanks

Aaron

Update - they have returned a further £200 to me which now means my full £500 in deposits have been returned. However, I am still keen to receive the final £200 in winnings which completes the £700 total withdrawal request made. As they have still not been able to justify or explain why my account was blocked and all funds confiscated I think it's only fair that they return my £200 in winnings too. Despite me offering the close the matter down once the deposits had been returned. On reflection, I'm unhappy with this as the final outcome and would like to receive my full withdrawal request.

Please can you help me recover the £200 in winnings owed? I have pasted their latest correspondence below which makes no reference to my complaint, nor how I've broken their terms and conditions. It's like they won't answer or acknowledge why they have taken the course of action they have and I'm getting frustrated by them constantly ignoring my emails and responding with either vague unhelpful information or a inaccurate withdrawal amount. Please see below:

Dear Unknown

Username: smythee

We have escalated the banking details to our finance team for the purpose of processing the withdrawal transaction of 200 GBP. 

We would like to thank you for your continued patience and kindly ask that you allow some time for the aforementioned funds to be processed. 

The funds should take 24 - 48 business hours to be processed by our finance team, after which it may take up to 10 business days to be cleared and deposited into your banking account, depending on your banking service provider. 

Kind Regards, 

Accounts Team

My response back to the accounts team here;

Dear support/accounts

Please also be advised that with each correspondence you have with me, your replies are being displayed on to my complaint case file with Casino Guru for all to see. Therefore, I would appreciate it if you stopped playing your games and made reference to how I had broken any of your terms and conditions which warrants you confiscating my deposits and winnings. 

To date in all of your correspondence you have not at all addressed this issue and I'm making this very clear to the public that views these complaints that you have so far handled this matter poorly. And now I'm ensuring that your unhelpful, deliberately vague and lack of information/justification responses are being displayed for all to see. 

I do not wish how you've treated me throughout this process to be bestowed on anyone else. You have not even apologised for the level of inconvenience you've caused me and with how you've treated me in this ordeal. You've not once even attempted to address the issue at hand and it's clear you're incapable of taking any responsibility for your unjust actions. 

The fact that you have even fully returned the £500 in deposits (which I've had to fight for otherwise I wouldn't have ever seen them again) proves to me and everyone else that you were completely in the wrong to confiscate them in the first place.. Returning them is admitting that you had no legitimate grounds to withhold them, which further demonstrates you have no legal recourse to keep my £200 in winnings either. 

I expect your reply to this email to address the following. 

1. How did I break any of your general terms and conditions which justifies confiscation of deposits and winnings

2. If and when you will be returning my final £200 withdrawal in winnings which you owe me 

3. A full apology for the unfair treatment and levels of stress and inconvenience caused in this case which could have easily been avoided

I will also be pasting this email into my Casino Guru complaint so the case manager handling my complaint is aware of the full conversation between us. 

I look forward to a reasonable and prompt response. 

Kind regards, 

Aaron 

Sent from Outlook for Android

Email from accounts below.

Dear Aaron,

Username: smythee

After a review of your account by our compliance and risk team, it has been decided to close down your account. As per clause 13.2 of the General Terms and Conditions, we reserve the right to close your account at any time for any reason.

If we terminate your account for any reason the provisions set out below shall apply:

1. Your account has now been terminated effective immediately.

2. Your winnings have been confiscated. 

3. You are banned from the group

4. A Refund was issued of 200.00 GBP. 

If you attempt to open any further accounts on the Network, they will be terminated and any funds accumulated will be confiscated.

A list of sites can be seen by following this link:

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-register/business/detail/52894

Regards,

Accounts Team

I am not sure how this justifies Keeling my £200 in winnings. Kristina, please can you contact them and ask for a proper justification as to how they can take such unjust action? The email is vague and doesn't exactly state what I've allegedly done wrong. I want my £200 in winnings processed please.

Regards

Aaron

Thank you very much, Smythee, for your cooperation. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello, Smythee,

I am sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience, and I apologize for the delay. I will contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue as soon as possible. In the meantime, based on the update provided, the disputed amount will be set to £200.

Now I would like to invite 21 Prive Casino's representative to join this conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear 21 Prive Casino team,

Could you please provide us with an explanation of the player's situation in more detail? Have the disputed winnings/remaining balance of £200 been confiscated? If yes, why have the disputed winnings been confiscated and the account blocked?

Does the last email from the casino relate to the lastly refunded £200 (a part of the player's deposit), or is it about the remaining winnings of £200, and the player will receive the rest of his balance to the used payment method?

If we are talking about a breach of the casino's Terms and Conditions, is the casino able to substantiate its decision with relevant evidence?

It is possible to share the data directly here, with your reply, or by sending them to my email address (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Please note that according to our internal policy and Fair Gambling Codex, although the casino has the right to close any account at any time, without giving a reason, however, if there is no justified reason or a breach of the casino's Terms and Conditions (or it is not supported by relevant evidence), we accept it only if the remaining balance is paid out in full.

Thank you in advance for providing the information.

Reply from 21prive complaints team

"Dear Mr Smyth,

We reference your recent dispute and have undertaken a review of your account.

We note that you deposited using a payment method that does not belong to you. We draw your attention to clause 7.2 of our terms and conditions https://www.21prive.com/index.php?page=terms which provides "You may only use payment methods registered in your own name to make deposits."

We further reference the warranties you agreed to when creating this account, excerpts of which have been included below:

"4.1 By opening an account with us and/or by using the Website you acknowledge, agree and warrant that you:

• have a valid bank account or credit or debit card issued in your name or alternative payment method;

• you are the legitimate owner of the money you deposit and any money that you deposit into your account is not tainted with any illegality and does not originate from any illegal activity or source;

4.2 In the event of any of the warranties outlined in clause 4.1 (Registering Your Account) being false, your stake will be forfeited, and we shall not be obliged to pay any winnings. We may also report the matter to the police, parents (in relation to underage gambling) and the appropriate regulatory authority."

Therefore, and in accordance with clause 13 of our Terms and Conditions, the below actions were taken:

1. Your account was terminated with immediate effect.

2. You were banned from the group.

3. The deposits of £500 were returned to the payment source it originated from.

We further draw your attention to clause 13 of our terms and conditions, excerpts of which have been included below for ease of reference:

"13.2 We reserve the right to close your account at any time for any reason.

13.3 Where we terminate your account due to you breaching any of the terms as set out below, we shall void any winnings:

• you are in breach or any of your warranties

• If it’s proven that you have played at any other online casino in bad faith or under any of the circumstances set out above."

Kindly note that if you attempt to open any further accounts on the network they will be terminated, and any funds accumulated will be confiscated. An index of the various casinos within our network can be viewed at the following link: https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/public-register/business/detail/domain-names/52894

Having considered your dispute, we note that the decision taken in this respect remains unchanged.

Should you remain dissatisfied in relation to a dispute, you have the option to escalate the matter externally via our ADR provider, eCOGRA. A process description of the eCOGRA ADR service is available here: https://ecogra.org/forms/adr-dispute-step-1

Regards,

Complaints Team"

They have not provided any evidence to support those outlandish claim. The PayPal account I used to deposit my funds was indeed in my name and they both did not ask me to provide any evidence to counter their claim and only found out this information as part of my complaint. Why was this information not provided in the first place so I could have had an opportunity to prove otherwise? It's simply not good enough to suggest I've deposited under a payment method that's not my own and not ask for any supporting evidence to prove the account is mine. Also to withhold this information deliberately until the 11th hour despite me continuously asking for a reason as to why my account had been blocked and you knowingly having this information and not providing it to me on multiple occasions is extremely disingenuous. You have no right to confiscate my winnings on this basis as you've not allowed me any opportunity to provide any evidence to suggest the account belongs to me. I had no idea this was your poor excuse as at no point did you advise me.

Casino guru, please can you comment on this?

Kind regards

Aaron

Shall I go through their ADR and dispute this? They've not suggested this is their full and final response on the matter, so I'm unsure as to whether I can progress with their ADR without this confirmed?

I'm pretty sure as they've not allowed any opportunity for me to provide any counter evidence and the fact they've deliberately been vague and withheld their reasoning for the account closure until now, it'll look pretty unfavorable on them for wrongly confiscating the winnings. In situations like this, the casino should be asking for proof of account ownership rather than making assumptions and not allowing any opportunity to prove otherwise. If they'd asked me to prove I'm in fact the account owner of the PayPal account I would of course provided such information immediately.

It begs the question though if they suspected that I was not the account owner, why did they return the £500 in deposits back to that payment method if it wasn't a legitimate account. This all sounds very fishy to me and I fail to see where their actions are reasonable and fair.

I will go back to the complaints team and advise them that future correspondence should go through this platform on the matter because with it going on behind closed doors, it's giving them more licence to act unfairly where nobody else can see.

Kind regards

Aaron

My response to complaints

"Dear complaints

I am not satisfied with this response. In all of my previous correspondence I have asked at multiple junctures for you to provide an explanation as to why you have confiscated my deposits and winnings. It is not acceptable for you to only tell me now that there is an issue with my payment method. You could have easily stated this in all of your previous correspondence saving everyone a massive amount of time. Furthermore, you have made no suggestion until now that this is the reason for my account closure. Nor have you at any point given me an opportunity to provide counter evidence that the account in question does indeed belong to me. Had you have been fair and open; you could have easily asked me to provide said evidence to which you have not and have made sheer assumptions Resulting in your unwarranted and unjust actions.

If it was required to show the PayPal account with my name and address, I could have easily sent this over to you. It is not your place to decide whether the account belongs to me without asking for sufficient supporting evidence if you had any queries or concerns. Equally, you have not been able to provide any evidence of the contrary that the account in question does not belong to me. If there has been any technical errors or glitches on your side which suggests that the account in question is not consistent with the information I registered my account with, then you have a duty to try and clear that information up with me before taking such drastic actions by l blocking access to my account and confiscating my winnings as a result. You also have a duty to be open and transparent with your communication to customers by not deliberately being vague and withholding information that you could have shared with me at an earlier point.

Please note that this complaint is also public via casino guru and they have asked for your involvement directly through their platform to comment on this complaint. Therefore, I would appreciate all future correspondence to go through the casino guru platform because I want the public to be aware of how you're responding to this issue. Furthermore, you have not suggested that this is your full and final response so you're leaving it incredibly ambiguous as to whether I can progress this matter to your alternative dispute resolutory.

I would like you to confirm through the casino guru platform as requested by them a full explanation as to how you've arrived at your conclusions and what course of action you will take next. equally I would like you to explain whether this is your full and final response and I will seek advice from casino guru as to whether I should take this matter to your ADR. I'm positive that I will because you have no legal resource to withhold this money.

As requested, please submit your response through the casino guru platform who have asked you to comment on this matter.

Regards Aaron"

Dear Smythee,

Thank you for your review.

We note that your dispute has been reviewed and responded to by our Complaints Team. Therefore, we would advise you to reach out to them directly should you have any further concerns.

@Branislav please note that we are unable to provide commentary on the matter. This is in line with the relevant GDPR constraints, for security purposes, and as the customer has commenced the Complaints and Disputes process internally. We, therefore, encourage the customer to contact our Complaints Team directly.

Regards,

21 Prive

@Casino Guru

The complaints team have responded and asked me to provide proof of account ownership to which I have responded promptly with the required evidence.

I hope this is enough to obtain the £200 in rightful winnings and close down the matter.

If they end up being difficult in this I will continue to paste their responses. Similarly I will update you if I consider the matter to be closed to my satisfaction.

Regards,

Aaron

Greetings all,

Thank you both for your replies.

Dear Smythee,

Good to see that things moved forward.

Is there any progress on the matter? Can you please provide me with an update?

Have you been already contacted back by the casino? If yes, what information have you received?

The casino have asked me to provide my PayPal information to which I have and now they're wanting more information to what I've provided and now they're trying to ID verification angle to delay the process further. I've signposted them to the UK gambling commission license condition 17 around id and verification that they cannot use this as a means to prevent withdrawal when they could have asked for it sooner which they never have. They're seriously trying everything they can to not pay. I've given them 48 hours to pay up otherwise I'm reporting then to the UKGC for breach of conditions and progress the case to their ADR to retrieve the monies owed and a further £300 in compensation for the stress and trouble this has caused me.

Alright, Smythee. Thank you for the update.

Is there any news? Any progress?

Basically, we usually recommend players to provide the casino with all the requested documents. Unfortunately, there is no other option for how you could move forward. For now, at least we know that someone is already working on it. It just needs more patience until everything is completed on their side.

Please, keep us updated.

Dear Smythee,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or do not require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Unfortunately, we are forced to reject this case because the player has not responded to our messages and questions. Therefore, we are not able to proceed with a further investigation or suggest possible solutions.

The player can reopen this complaint anytime.

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.Guru