Betsafe Casino - 플레이어가 제한된 국가에서 계정을 만드는 데 성공했습니다.

I have been waiting since 4/4/2021 to receive an update for a refund i requested for letting a restricted country customer play in the casino. Moreover, another reason im requesting the refund is because the support has been letting me use vpn for years in order to be able to use the casino and make deposits and play restrcited software providers, which is against the terms and conditions of betsafe. Betsafe is blacklisted from 2013 by my country's gaming commission. The casino did not comply with the notification and let me register in 2015 and also be a member for years until now, without letting me know i was country restricted as stated in the terms and conditions (restricted countries) and letting me use vpn which is against betsafe's own terms and conditions.

Dear Rafail,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and forwarding all the relevant screenshots and communication. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked the terms and conditions, and this is what I found https://www.betsafe.com/en/terms-and-conditions:

"Who can play

To play the games on the site you must be:

over 18 years of age or above the legal age for gambling in the country you are playing from;

not resident in Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Angola, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, China, Croatia, Cuba, Czech Republic, Denmark, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, France, Georgia, Greece, Greenland, Guadeloupe, Guyane (French Guiana), Hungary, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Italy, Kuwait, Latvia, Libya, Lithuania, Malaysia, Martinique, Mauritania, Mauritius, Morocco, Norfolk Island, N. Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Portugal, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Slovenia, Somalia, South Sudan, Spain, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, Tunisia, UAE, United Kingdom, Yemen, United States and its dependencies, military bases and territories including but not limited to Am. Samoa, Guam, Marshall Islands, N. Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and Virgin Islands."

Since there is no possibility to register an account from a restricted country (see the screenshot below), I would like you to advise which country you have chosen when opening your account. Could you please forward your account details?

I understand that it might seem like a lot of questions, but all the requested information is essential if we wish to proceed with this case. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

Believe it or not, i had chosen Greece as a country. Moreover, when i had registered, there were a lot of problems going on with the deposit section. I could not make any deposit after a while, so i asked support why and how can we fix this. Support had told me that there was no issue from their side, so they suggested i would use VPN which is fobidden in the term and conditions because the player can make deposits using deposits methods he should not allow to use in the first place and play slots by software providers he should not allowed to play as well(such as netent slots which are forbidden to be played by residents from Greece since it is unlicenced). The allowance of using VPN started from 2016 and so on. In 4/4/2021, i went to the live chat and asked support if Greek players are allowed to play here, (please be informed that until 4/4/2021 my account was opened) and support told me that betsafe offers its services to greek customers. Another thing i would like to point out is that in 13/02/2016 i had asked via chat to close my account permanently due to losing and never winning (back then responsible gaming tools were not available) and i was offered bonus instead. In 26/3/2016 i closed my account and it was opened again.

I am wiiling to answer anything, so please feel free to ask me anything additional.

Oh and another thing. After sigining up at betsafe.com, after a while i was not able to use the official site, because apparently i was restricted, so betsafe suggested me to use betsafe23.com I have the documents to prove this as well.

Thank you very much for your reply. Do I understand correctly that when you have opened your account Greece was still available from a drop-down menu during the Registration? Could you please advise since when you are a member of Betsafe Casino?

Is there any chance, that you have saved a screenshot of your account details (with a visible country of residence) before your access got restricted? Thank you very much in advance.

Thank you very much for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Jozef who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello.

I absolutely appreciate that you shared your experiences with the Casino Guru team. We will now try to get in touch with the casino.

Casino is fully aware of the complaint here. Casino has been reviewing the refund on three occasions.

1. Restricted country

2. Allowance of VPN (forbidden in terms)

3. Request for permanent closure of account in 13.2.2016 due to spending too much(support instead of closing it, gave 50 euros) And permanent closure in 26.3.2016. But account was re opened and deposits were made.(account was opened until 4.4.21)

Betsafe is not following MGA's directive, when it comes to complaint procedure.

Betsafe has a fair casino title here, so I really hope it will represent the title.

In case Betsafe won't respond, I would like the complaint to be marked as unresolved. I will be contacting the official regulatory bodies.

I decided to contact Ecogra for this matter. Betsafe is not complying anymore with complaints procedure stated in the terms and conditions of betsafe and the directive of Mga.

The casino does not deserve the fair casino title.

Since we haven’t received any response from the casino regarding the issue, we are forced to close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

The casino can reopen this complaint anytime.

Dear Rafail,

The casino has requested that this complaint be reopened and provided information regarding the case.

It has been explained that when you originally registered, your country was not restricted. It was further stated that sometime later, a different site was launched for Greek players specifically and that this was explained to you at the time.

Can you please clarify if this was the case?

Kind regards,

Adam

Hello, yes. (I'm very sorry but it's been 2 years now after my complaint was filed)

So anyway, I was impressed that Betsafe opened up the complaint, kudos for that.

Hello Rafail,

Thank you for your response, I appreciate it has been a long time since your complaint was submitted originally.

Can I ask you to please clarify if you consider that the matter was resolved?

Kind regards,

Adam

No, as far as I remember I didn't see any refund or any smaller refund in my account. Hehe.

p.s. I want to add: Betsafe also made a very important clause (VPN forbidden in all cases) non applicable for me. This means that after informing Betsafe that I was not able to use the desired payment methods in the alternative website(betsafe23,25 etc.) I was told to use VPN stating that they are not against it. With this way, the payment methods i chose could only process any payment otherwise I couldn't due to the restrictions made by the payment system.

Also, when it comes to the previous question ''It has been explained that when you originally registered, your country was not restricted. It was further stated that sometime later, a different site was launched for Greek players specifically and that this was explained to you at the time.''

I can tell you that I was not aware of the alternative website. It was given to me by the department at that time, stating that it is exactly as the official website and it is for players in regions that experience problems with the official website. I was never informed that the alternative website was made for players that are country restricted. If that was the case i wouldn't play.

Here is something that I wanted to say. All online casinos that are licensed by serious regulatory authorities/bodies, such as MGA or UKGC, are obliged to follow some rules or directives. One of them is not to accept players from selected regions and also not to allow players (especially when a player is country-restricted) to mask their i.p address so they can access the website or play restricted slots by software providers or use deposit methods that have blocked all transactions through the gateway system, in order to keep things transparent and to secure a safe gaming environment. (MGA has published many directives and I highly believe that all serious online casinos licensed by the MGA are very strict when it comes to country restrictions and VPN use)

This is why, I think as a non expert on this matter, not even one MGA-licensed casino allows players to mask their i.p. address, gain access to the casino, use deposit options that wouldn't be available in the first place, play slot games by providers that are not allowed in the first place, but you will find plenty of online casinos which are unlicensed or licensed by Curacao.

As you can see from the evidence I had forwarded to you, the casino in question, offered an alternative link to have access to the website stating that it was created for players in different regions that may experience problems logging into their account. Not once I was told that I was country-restricted. When I specifically asked them, I was told that I wasn't.

Moreover, I could not make any deposit through the alternative website, because the deposit methods I had back then, did not let me process any payment to Betsafe, because apparently I was not allowed to make any deposits to that particular casino. But, I was allowed to mask my i.p. address so to bypass a restriction by the department of Betsafe back then, in order to continue making deposits, even though it was clearly stated (saw it years later) that it was forbidden to do such thing, because apparently it is a term that must be applicable in all cases (especially in this one), it is probably a measure to keep things transparent, fair and safe according to the MGA. 

Betsafe had to:

1. Inform me that I was not allowed to have a gaming account on its platform after a while.
2. Forbid me from continuing playing through an alternative website.
3. Forbid  me from masking my i.p. address so to continue making deposits while all deposit methods were not allowing it through their gateway system due to country-restriction. (something that Betsafe knew and also I told them about having the trouble making any kind of deposit)
4. Forbid  me from playing with VPN, online slot games by software providers that were not available for me in the first place.
5. Keep the clause (VPN not allowed) applicable to me as I believe it is for everyone.

If Betsafe had done at least one of the abovementioned tasks, I would have either had my account closed or inactive due to the inability of depositing.

The right way is to have the refund credited in my account if Betsafe is indeed fair and safe.

Hello Rafail,

Thank you for the additional information. I am waiting for more information from the casino, could I ask you to confirm the disputed amount? Are you requesting a refund of your deposits from a specific period?

Kind regards,

Adam

Yes, the requested amount concerns the period of the alternative website and VPN use. There may be a chance that the amount may be slightly lower in case I did not calculate it correctly.

Hello Rafail,

I would like to clarify a few more details about the case, if I may. The casino states that no funds were confiscated from you at any point and that your last game round was played on 3/5/2017. Can you please confirm if this is correct?

I would also like to know if you ever made any successful withdrawals while using this account.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Kind regards,

Adam

Hello, when it comes to money confiscation,no I did not have anything confiscated.

I don't recall my last round being on 3/5/17. If the department states it, I can accept it.

When it comes to withdrawals, I recall making withdrawals in the early 2015. Since my account is restricted and the alternative website down, I can no longer enter and check.

I would like to know, why did Betsafe let me use an alternative website while my country was restricted and why did Betsafe told me to use VPN while there is an important clause (a clause that all mga-licensed casinos follow due to directives and protection of player and funds policy) stated that "VPN is forbidden" which is an applicable clause for every player.

Hello Rafail,

Thanks for the clarification. The problem here, as I understand it, is that you have played and used the website of your own volition. When you created your account, your country was not restricted, and because you have deposited multiple times, and also made withdrawals, I am not sure that there are grounds to demand a refund of money you have gambled fairly.

At some point, the casino stopped accepting players from Greece, but if nothing has been confiscated from you I do not think that there is anything we can achieve here. The casino mentioned that you had previously submitted a complaint to the Malta Gaming Authority, is that correct? If so, can you tell me how they responded?

Kind regards,

Adam

I wanted to submit the complaint, but I decided not to due to other personal matter that I had to attend.

I had contacted ecogra but I was told that they accept complaints from UK citizens if I remember it exactly.

I understand that when I registered at Betsafe my country was not restricted.

But it was eventually after my registration.

How is supposed to be fair gaming when an mga-licensed casino allows a player that eventually can't deposit due to country restrictions, to use VPN? Why every other mga-licensed casino restricts vpn use for all players?

If Betsafe had applied the clause for me, my account would have been inactive/closed, because all payment methods were restricted for me.

I would also like Betsafe and casino.guru to consider this.

When a term is published on an mga-licensed casino, its made for purposes such as to abide by laws and of course rules, directives and policies.

It is not fair for an online casino to take advantage of a term by making it non applicable to a player, for the casino to benefit even more. It was casino's responsibility to deny vpn allowance. Betsafe knew from a point that I was not able to make any deposits since every method was restricted to me and instead of denying VPN, it allowed it to benefit more.

If a player registers in an online casino and later his country becomes restricted, will an mga licensed casino let him use VPN to continue depositing and playing? No.

Otherwise why are the terms and conditions for?

Back then an online casino licensed by the MGA , had stopped accepting players from my region. It informed me and let my account being inactive. (I was not allowed to use VPN since it was forbidden)

In another online casino once again licensed by the MGA, where I had my deposit methods not available (due to country restrictions), it denied the VPN allowance.

How can Betsafe do that?

Here are additional proofs where the casino advises me to use VPN while I couldn't continue playing anymore.

I can send additional proofs to back this up if I'm asked.

Hello Rafail,

Thank you for the additional information. I am waiting for the casino to provide confirmation of the date that they stopped accepting players from Greece, I will update upon receiving a response.

Kind regards,

Adam

Okay, from what I was informed , Betsafe was informed by my region's gaming commission that it was not allowed to offer its services in mid to end 2015-2016 exactly when the official website and deposit methods became unavailable to me.

Let's see..

Hello Rafail,

The casino has stated that you have not used your account since 3/5/2017 when you last played. It has further stated that registrations from Greek players stopped being accepted a few months previous to the launch of the Betsson.gr greek licensed website in June of 2021.

Consequently, if the casino was still accepting Greek players while (and after) you were using your account, I do not see that there are grounds for a refund here.

You stated that Greek players were restricted from an earlier date (mid to end 2015-2016) and that this was the reason for the problems you experienced with using the site/payment methods.

Do you have any evidence to support that Greek players became restricted at this time?

Kind regards,

Adam

Hello, yes, Betsafe was added to the gaming commission's blacklist in the 8th Edition in 24th April of 2016.

Here is the proof. https://www.gamingcommission.gov.gr/index.php/deltia-typou-blog/247-black-list-ekdosi-8a

Also, a greek website showing the list of the 8th edition.

Betsafe is there

Other than than, I do not have any other proof.

In regards to my question about allowance of VPN, why was that allowed?

Please bear in mind that i will respect your verdict, no hard feelings.

Hello Rafail,

Thanks for the additional information. I am going to review the entire case once more and will post our conclusions shortly.

Kind regards,

Adam

Dear Rafail,

We accept the situation when the casino allows players from restricted countries to open an account and play as long as they don’t use this as an opportunity to cancel a player's legitimate winnings. Simply put – if the casino allows players from restricted countries to deposit and play, they should pay out their winnings as well.

The situation with this specific case is slightly different. The country you have registered from was not initially restricted but has become so at a later point. You have requested a refund as you state that you have been allowed to continue playing via a mirror site and with the use of a VPN, after your country has been made restricted.

The problem here is that you have done so of your own volition and because you have deposited, played and even made withdrawals, and nothing has been confiscated from you, we do not believe that there are sufficient grounds for the casino to pay you back any money.

We will therefore reject the complaint, as there is nothing more we can hope to achieve in this case.

I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion.

Kind regards,

Adam