Justbit Casino - 플레이어의 계정이 차단되고, 자금은 압수됩니다.

Enough time has passed since the dispute arose. But before I did not know where to turn. Therefore, I am now trying to find a solution to this dispute.

On September 13, 2024, I registered on their website. Confirmed my email and phone number. Asked support to change my phone number to a Belarusian one. Since I didn't receive a verification SMS. Which they kindly did for me.

Immediately on 13.09 I made a deposit of 0.008 BTC.

I made bets and became a VIP client for them. But as soon as I requested a withdrawal, they asked me for KYC. After which they replied that access to the site was prohibited for residents of Belarus.

Okay, I agree that I did not see a restriction for my country in the rules. But I offered this casino to return my money. Since with such logic, they have no right to accept money from residents of countries that are prohibited from accessing the site. At the same time, I remind you that they deliberately changed my phone number to Belarusian (!).

It seemed like the casino was accommodating, but it turned out that it was just empty talk and they never contacted again. Apart from the typical formal replies that they needed more time...

At the same time, I had experience with other casinos where there were the same bans for my country, but there the casinos themselves returned the remaining money in the accounts.

Half a year has passed, and I still haven't received an answer from them. This question is still relevant.

Due to the fact that enough time has passed, I may have forgotten some information.

There was a winning amount on the account on top of the deposit. I do not claim it. I just want the casino to return my deposit of exactly 0.008 BTC to the wallet that I indicated in the correspondence with them (I can duplicate it). Because in their rules nowhere is it stated that they can confiscate funds. Logically, on the contrary, they do not have the right to accept funds from residents of countries whose access to their site is restricted.

During the conversation, they never once referred to any clause in their rules that they had the right to confiscate.

Please help me understand this situation and return my deposit, which they are illegally holding in their accounts.

I am attaching screenshots of the email correspondence in a general format as proof that we communicated for a long time, but without results. If necessary, I can provide additional information or screenshots.

Thank you, with respect

Прошло достаточно времени с момента возникновения спора. Но раньше я не знал куда обратиться. Поэтому пробую сейчас найти решение в данном споре.

13.09.2024 года я зарегистрировался у них на сайте. Подтвердил почту, телефон. Попросил в поддержке поменять телефон на белорусский. Так как не приходила смс с верификацией. Что мне любезно сделали.

Сразу же 13.09 сделал депозит на 0.008 BTC.

Делал ставки, стал для них вип клиентом. Но как только запросил вывод, то у меня запросили KYC. После чего ответили, что для резидентов Беларуси доступ к сайту запрещен.

Окей, я согласен, что не усмотрел в правилах ограничение для моей страны. Но я предложил данному казино вернуть мои деньги. Так как с такой логикой, они не имеют права принимать деньги от резидентов стран, которым запрещен доступ на сайт. При этом напомню, они осознанно изменили мой телефон на белорусский(!).

На что вроде бы как казино пошло на встречу, но оказалось, что это было пустое кормление завтраками и на контакт они больше не выходили. Кроме типичных отписок, что им нужно еще время...

При этом у меня был опыт с другими казино, где были такие же запреты для моей страны, но там казино самостоятельно возвращали оставшиеся деньги на счетах.

Прошло полгода, ответа от них я так и не получил. Данный вопрос до сих пор актуальный.

В связи с тем, что прошло достаточно времени какую-то информацию я мог забыть.

На аккаунте была выигранная сумма сверху депозита. На нее я не претендуют. Я лишь хочу, чтобы казино вернуло мой депозит на именно 0.008 BTC на кошелек, который я указал в переписке с ними (могу продублировать). Потому что в правилах у них нигде не указано, что они могут конфисковывать средства. По логике они наоборот не имеют права принимать денежные средства от резидентов стран, доступ к их сайту которым ограничен.

В ходе общения они ни разу не сослались на какой-либо пункт в своих правилах, что они имеют право на конфискацию.

Прошу помочь разобраться в данной ситуации и вернуть мой депозит, который они незаконно удерживают у себя на счетах.

Скриншоты переписки по емейл, прикладываю в общем формате, как доказательство, что мы долго общались, но без результатов. Если понадобится, то могу предоставить дополнительную информацию или скриншоты.

Спасибо, с уважением

Dear brawlstarsforme00,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I'm truly sorry to hear about the issue you're experiencing, and I'm here to assist you in any way I can.

To better understand the situation and to help you resolve it as quickly as possible, could you kindly provide some additional information?

1. Have you used any VPN or IP-masking software to alter your location while accessing the website?
2. Could you please specify the country, city, and address you entered in the registration form when you signed up at this casino? Additionally, was all of the personal information you provided accurate and complete?
3. Could you please forward the email thread between you and the casino regarding the refund of your deposit? You can send it to my email address at veronika.f@casino.guru.

Once I have this information, I'll be in a better position to assist you further. I look forward to your response and hope we can resolve this as soon as possible.

Best regards,

Veronika

Have you ever accessed this casino’s website without using a VPN?

Have you made only one deposit in BTC currency into this casino?

Could you also forward me the email where the casino informed you that your account was closed due to residing in a restricted jurisdiction?

No, I have never visited this casino site without using a VPN.

Yes, I made only one deposit in BTC currency.

I have forwarded the letter to you by email.

Нет. я никогда не заходил на сайт этого казино без использования VPN.

Да, я сделал только один депозит в валюте BTC.

Письмо переслал вам на почту.

Thank you very much, brawlstarsforme00, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Michal (michal.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello brawlstarsforme00,

I'm Michal, and I have taken over this complaint. I have reviewed your case, and I have checked the casino T&Cs where I found this:

It is the player's duty to review the terms and confirm the casino's acceptance of the players from their specific country. Moreover, you have used a VPN, so despite the casino using an IP block for Belarus and most likely other restricted countries, it might not work properly as you have used the VPN. Strictly technically speaking, the casino team is right in stating that you have breached their rules. I understand your point that they should not accept your deposits, but this was made via Crypto and as far as I know, there is no such thing as a country restriction when it comes to crypto transactions. Once you send money to any wallet, it basically cannot be recovered without the other side's cooperation. Nevertheless, considering that the casino team has offered a refund, it is expected of them to honor this commitment. I will contact the casino to see if I can help somehow.

We would like to invite Justbit Casino to join the conversation.

Dear Justbit Casino,  

I would appreciate it if you could clarify the reasons behind the delay in processing the previously proposed refund for the player. If there are any specific factors contributing to this situation that cannot be disclosed publicly, please feel free to send them to me at michal.k@casino.guru.

Good afternoon, Michal!

I understand perfectly well that due to territorial restrictions I cannot use the Justbit website.

And when registering, I simply didn't read the site rules carefully. It wasn't some kind of deliberate IP blocking bypass, which is confirmed by my request to change the phone number in my personal account on the very first day. Ordinary human inattention.

Due to the fact that their rules do not specify that they have the right to confiscate funds in such cases, as well as my previous experience with another casino, where in a similar situation they simply cancelled all my bets and voluntarily returned the deposit (I did not even ask them about it). I contacted support, where they were attentive and polite, but it turned out that this was "feeding with empty promises". That is, they did not even decide to write to me on what grounds they confiscated the deposit, but ignored it all the time and continue to do so, and violated the deadlines that they themselves determined for resolving the issue.

Actually, all I'm asking for is my deposit back.

Добрый день, Michal!

Я прекрасно понимаю, что из-за территориального ограничения я не могу пользоваться сайтом Justbit.

И при регистрации я банально невнимательно ознакомился с правилами сайта. Это не был какой-то намеренный обход блокировки ip, что подтверждается моей просьбой сменить телефон в личном кабинете в первый же день. Обычная человеческая невнимательность.

Ввиду того, что в правилах у них не указано, что они имеют право конфисковывать средства в подобных случаях, а также моего предыдущего опыта с другим казино, где в похожей ситуации мне просто аннулировали все ставки и добровольно вернули депозит (я даже не просил их об этом). Я обратился в поддержку, где проявили внимательность и вежливость, но оказалось, что это "кормление завтраками". То есть они даже не решили мне написать, на каком основании они конфисковали депозит, а все время игнорировали и продолжают это делать, и нарушали сроки, которые сами определили для решения вопроса.

Собственно, я лишь и прошу вернуть мой депозит.

Dear brawlstarsforme00,

I appreciate your reply. I recognize that your primary concern is retrieving your deposits, and I concur that the casino team should process a refund, particularly since they themselves presented this option to you. However, the final decision rests entirely with them, as there is no legal obligation compelling them to do so since you violated their terms and conditions. I remain hopeful that they will uphold their own commitment.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Dear brawlstarsforme00,

After a thorough review of your account and your request for a refund, we regret to inform you that, based on the grounds outlined in our Payment Policy, your case does not align with any of the eligible reasons for initiating a refund. Our Payment Policy stipulates specific scenarios where a refund may be considered, and unfortunately, your situation does not fall within these criteria.The listed reasons/grounds for a refund, as per our Payment Policy, include:

1. Money has been added to your account by accident;

2. Money has been fraudulently taken from your card and staked without your knowing;

3. The User did not receive the product or service after making a stake;

4. Services have not been fully provided, etc

Given the details provided, it appears that your case does not meet any of the criteria mentioned above.

While we are unable to fulfill your request for a refund in this instance, we want to assure you that your feedback is valuable to us. If you have any questions or concerns about responsible gaming or if there's anything else we can assist you with, please do not hesitate to contact our customer support team.

Hello.

It seems to me that your thinking is shallow and incorrect.

The situation is definitely ambiguous. Your rules do not mention confiscation of funds in such situations. There is no reason to confiscate the deposit. On the contrary, if I cannot register with you, then you have no right to accept payments from me. Even crypto payments.

If you adhere to sanctions or any other legal acts. Then by confiscating the deposit, you violate these legal acts. Since you accepted funds from a citizen of a country who is prohibited from using your site. I understand perfectly well that cryptocurrency has no citizenship. But cryptocurrency is a means of payment. And as with any other means of payment, in such situations a return to the original address is made. (I will try to describe this technically using a bank card as an example: if a Belarusian card is on the sanctions list, then the payment attempt is as follows: the payment from the card goes to the recipient, but since the recipient sees that the payment is coming from a sanctioned card, he rejects this payment and makes a return to the payer). This practice is used by other online crypto casinos with deposits in crypto.

This creates double standards. You have nowhere stated that in such situations you have the right to confiscate funds, but you confiscate them anyway.

But you can’t return the deposit because it doesn’t fall under your refund policy.

It turns out that everything works only in one direction. And the player (client) is absolutely not protected.

Let's remember again... I registered on your site, entered my data (although you didn't require it), that is, I immediately indicated where I was from, what country. I made a deposit. You accepted the deposit and gave me the opportunity to play with you, knowing that I was from a country whose citizens do not have the right to register with you. You gave me VIP status and assigned me a VIP manager.

And only when I requested a withdrawal, you accused me of breaking your rules. I assume that you would turn a blind eye to your own rules, even if you deposited millions of dollars, but ended up losing them...

Are you sure you haven't violated anything? If you had followed your own rules, you should have banned me from using your site as soon as I asked to change my phone to a Belarusian one (you should have had suspicions). You didn't do that, but on the contrary, you personally changed the phone number in your personal data and gave me the opportunity to continue using your site...

Therefore, I urge you to be flexible not only towards yourself, but also towards your clients (me), which you showed initially by going to meet and promising to sort out this situation (though, all this remained only promises). And to comply with my demands. Namely, to return my deposit. Just a deposit.

If you have no experience in such situations, I will tell you again what other casinos do. They cancel all bets and return deposits to customers who do not have the right to use their services (services were not provided in full, etc. - fits your 4th point?). And this happens without complaints or involvement of third parties...

Also, don't be petty. Only ~$660 at the current rate... For a big company, that should be nothing.

Another thesis:

1) Players from Belarus do not have the right to register with you and use the services of your site

2) Even if a player from Belarus registered on your site, your support had no right to change the data to Belarusian - a violation

3) You do not have the right to accept deposits from Belarusian players (even crypto deposits). And this casino positions itself as a crypto casino.

4) You have no right to confiscate deposits from Belarusian players. Confiscation in this situation = theft

5) This means that the services were not provided in full - in my opinion this falls under your point 4

Please do not turn a blind eye to your mistakes and violations.

Is my logic wrong? Prove it if it is not.

Здравствуйте.

Мне кажется, вы мыслите плоско и неверно.

Ситуация определенно неоднозначная. В ваших правилах нигде не прописано про конфискацию средств в подобных ситуациях. Нет основания конфисковывать депозит. Наоборот, если я не могу у вас регистрироваться, то вы не имеете права принимать от меня платежи. Даже криптоплатежи.

Если вы придерживаетесь санкций или каких-либо других правовых актов. То конфисковав депозит, вы нарушаете эти правовые акты. Так как приняли денежные средства от гражданина страны, которому запрещено пользоваться вашим сайтом. Я прекрасно понимаю, что криптовалюта не имеет гражданства. Но криптовалюта является платежным средством. И как при использовании любого другого платежного средства, в подобных ситуациях осуществляется возврат на исходный адрес. (Попробую описать технически данный момент на примере банковской карты: если белорусская карта входит в санкционный список, то попытка оплаты проходит следующим образом: платеж с карты уходит к получателю, но так как получатель видит, что оплата идет с санкционной карты, то отклоняет данный платеж и делает возврат плательщику). Данную практику применяют другие онлайн-крипто казино с депозитами в крипте.

Получаются двойные стандарты. У вас нигде не указано, что в подобных ситуациях вы имеете право конфисковывать средства, но все равно конфискуете их.

Но и вернуть депозит не можете, потому что не попадает под ваши правила возврата средств.

Получается все работает только в одну сторону. И игрок (клиент) абсолютно не защищен.

Давайте вспомним еще раз... Я зарегистрировался у вас на сайте, внес свои данные (хотя вы этого не требовали), то есть сразу самостоятельно обозначил откуда я, из какой страны. Внес депозит. Вы приняли депозит и дали мне возможность играть у вас, зная, что я из страны, граждане которой не имеют права регистрироваться у вас. Дали мне ВИП статус и приставили вип менеджера.

И только когда я запросил вывод средств, вы обвинили меня в нарушении ваших правил. Предполагаю, что вы бы закрыли глаза на свои же правила, даже если бы внес миллионы $, но в итоге проиграл их...

Вы точно ничего не нарушили? Если бы вы соблюдали свои же правила, то вы должны были запретить мне пользоваться вашим сайтом, как только я попросил поменять телефон на белорусский ( у вас должны были возникнуть подозрения). Вы этого не сделали, а наоборот, собственноручно поменяли телефон в персональных данных, и дали возможность продолжить пользоваться вашим сайтом...

Поэтому я призываю вас быть гибкими не только по отношению к себе, но и по отношению к клиентам (ко мне), что вы проявили изначально, пойдя на встречу и обещав разобраться в данной ситуации (правда, все это осталось только обещаниям). И пойти на мои требования. А именно вернуть мой депозит. Всего лишь депозит.

Если у вас нет опыта в подобных ситуациях, то я вам еще раз рассказываю, как поступают другие казино. Они аннулируют все ставки и возвращают депозиты клиентам, которые не имеют права пользоваться их услугами (услуги не были предоставлены в полном объеме и т.д. - подходит под ваш 4 пункт?). И это происходит без жалоб и участия третьих лиц...

Помимо прочего, не будьте мелочными. Всего ~660$ по текущему курсу... Для большой компании - это должно быть ерундой.

Очередной тезис:

1) Игроки из Беларуси не имеют права регистрироваться у вас и пользоваться услугами вашего сайта

2) Даже если игрок из Беларуси зарегистрировался у вас на сайте, то ваша поддержка не имела права менять данные на белорусские - нарушение

3) Вы не имеете права принимать депозиты от игроков Беларуси (даже криптодепозиты). А данное казино позиционирует себя именно как криптоказино.

4) Вы не имеете права конфисковывать депозиты от игроков Беларуси. Конфискация в данной ситуация = кража

5) Значит услуги не были предоставлены в полном объеме - по-моему попадает под ваш 4 пункт

Будьте добры, не закрывать глаза на свои ошибки и нарушения.

Разве моя логика не верна? Опровергните, если это не так.

Dear brawlstarsforme00,

While I can agree with you on some points, there are quite a few important other points that must be taken into account which you seem to somehow overlook.

As I have already mentioned previously, It is the player's duty to review the terms and conditions and confirm the casino's acceptance of the players from their specific country.

As can be clearly seen in the casino's terms and conditions section 8.

8.The User guarantees at all times not to be a resident or citizen of countries including, but not limited to...Belarus...

Moreover, Justbit casino has IP blocking in place:

So you have deliberately used a VPN and you intentionally bypassed the casino's measurements, and by this, you have fully consciously violated the casino rules.

The casino did not force you to deposit your funds; you did this voluntarily. Furthermore, you conducted this transaction using cryptocurrency, and to my knowledge, there are no country-specific restrictions on crypto transactions. I don't believe that casinos or any other businesses have the ability to trace the origin of crypto transactions to a specific country.

While I understand that you provided your "Belarusian details" in your account and the phone number, but in most casinos the player details, gameplay, and other information related to KYC and AML are checked only once there is a withdrawal request submitted, so it is in most situations only at this point where any discrepancies are discovered.

The usual livechat support or a VIP manager very rarely has this information available before the relevant security team checks this information.

I also understand your point that if the casino team previously offered to refund your deposits, it would be expected that they would honour their offer, and from the human point of view, we would also expect this, but sadly there is no legal obligation for them to do so because you have breached their rules.

As the casino team mentioned, sadly, your case did not meet the eligibility requirements for initiating a refund according to their Payment (refund) Policy.

You have been provided their services, and you have actively played the games, so technically speaking, there are no valid reasons for a refund.

You have agreed to these and other casino terms and conditions when creating your account.

Your logic "they have no right to accept money from residents of countries that are prohibited from accessing the site." appears not to be fully correct here.

For example, you ride your car on a motorway where there is a maximum speed limit of 130 km/h (there are road signs for this), but you drive at 150 km/h and you get a fine from the police for speeding. Would you blame the police or the government for allowing you to drive that fast when YOU on YOUR OWN have breached the law?

Hope you got the point.

I can agree with you that some casinos return the deposits in similar situations, but this is up to every casino's sole consideration. Once the breach of rules is confirmed, which in your case it clearly was, there is no legal obligation for Justbit Casino to return your deposits.

I'm sorry, I have no better news to share, but I'm afraid there is nothing that can be done here from our side.

You are free to disagree with this conclusion and are certainly entitled to explore other options if you still believe you are justified in your stance; however, we are unable to pursue your case further.

I can only recommend that you carefully review and understand the terms and conditions of each casino and ensure that you adhere to them.

Please let me know if the matter has been clarified so that I can proceed with closing it or if you need assistance with anything else.

Hello, Michal.

It saddens me to realize that in a situation where there is no clear point in the rules on how to act in such a situation, the casino chooses the path of profit - this says a lot about the casino, about how it will act in a borderline situation with other clients.

Rules in which the player must follow absolutely all the rules, and the casino - at its own discretion - are not established fairly for both parties.

All I can do is accept that I stupidly didn't read the rules carefully, and the casino unilaterally took advantage of that. I repeat, there was no deliberate attempt to circumvent the rules. And I counted on human decency until the very end.

If this is your final decision, then, as Justbit wrote above, I will be forced to leave a "valuable" review that in the event of a human error, the casino will act as prudently as possible and, if possible, not in favor of the player.

Здравствуйте, Michal.

Мне грустно осознавать, что в ситуации, когда нет четкого пункта в правилах, как надо поступать в подобной ситуации, казино выбирает путь наживы - это многое говорит о казино, о том, как оно поступит в пограничной ситуации с другими клиентами.

Правила, в которых игрок должен соблюдать абсолютно все правила, а казино - на свое усмотрение, - не являются справедливо установленными для обоих сторон.

Все, что мне остается делать, это смириться с тем, что по глупости невнимательно прочитал правила, а казино в одностороннем порядке воспользовалось этим. Повторюсь, намеренной попытки обойти правила не было. И я до последнего рассчитывал на человеческую порядочность.

Если это ваше окончательное решение, то, как писало Justbit выше, я буду вынужден оставить "ценный" отзыв о том, что в случае человеческой ошибки, казино поступит максимально расчетливо и при возможности не в пользу игрока.

Dear brawlstarsforme00,

While you certainly have every right to hold your own opinion about the whole situation, however, because of the violation of the casino rules that were done by you I'm forced to close this case as unjustified.

I can see how frustrating this situation must be for you. As I've pointed out several times, it's completely understandable to expect them to honour their earlier offer. However, legally speaking, they are not obligated to do so due to your breach of their regulations.

I'm sorry we could not help you with this one. I can only recommend that you carefully review and understand the terms and conditions of each casino and ensure that you adhere to them to minimise such situations in the future.

Should you encounter any issues with any other casino in the future, please feel free to reach out to us, and we will try our best to help.

Best regards,

Michal

Casino Guru