Lord of the Spins Casino - 플레이어의 상금이 압수되었습니다.

Having deposited 40 (2x 20) euros on day 1, I won 150 euros through a combination of slots and blackjack. I requested the bank transfer withdrawal and all seemed to be progressing (albeit slowly) without issue. Day 2 I deposited another 50 euros (2x 25) and won another 80 euros. 

As per the casino withdrawal screen, I was asked to cancel the 150 withdrawal (their minimum withdrawal) and add the 80 to make a 230 euro withdrawal. However, the withdrawal screen would not allow a withdrawal, to which I was concerned. 

I contacted a chat agent, and asked them what had happened and why. Marc advised that he could do it for me, and processed the 230 euro withdrawal quickly and with no explanation as to how they had my details (I fill them in each time as the system does not remember - frustratingly). However, after a check, it was confirmed that all was correct and that the money would take 'about a week'.

So, towards the end of today (day 2) I receive an email telling me that my withdrawal has been cancelled and that the money has been confiscated as: "Our terms and conditions prohibit placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% from the value of the deposit".

I am obviously outraged at this, as despite being sure this has always been in their terms, I have not experienced this at any other casino - something that tells me this casino's policies are designed fully to con customers and to ensure that they cannot withdraw any winnings (based on the minumum withdrawal being 150 euros and unless you deposit a large amount or play for a long time, you will never realistically achieve).

In addition, when playing blackjack (this is likely when my bets exceed this bizarre limit), nothing prompted me to remind me that I am basically now wasting my money, and that I will never get any return from it once I place this bet. 

I had 230 euros made up of a mixture of different bets and respective winnings, so by the casino confiscating all of the winnings is absolutely not correct, and something that I feel is not the right outcome. 

However, when contacting the support function, I am unable to generate any conversation that is beyond the usual stock answers that 'all of my bets were over 30% of the deposit"...absolutely not the case at all. Some, I am sure were, but a lot were not. But I am continually told that "The casino reserves the right to confiscate winnings" - essentially telling me that for a few bets, the entire amount is gone. Another reminder that systems and policies (as well as agents 'serving' customers) are surely a breach of regulation, a result of poor practice and ultimately, meaning a 230 euro loss due to a term that is so crazy it is almost always understood that you deposit and play in a way that you choose - especially with games such as blackjack. 

The frustration is that the money was deposited (more than winning deposits by far) and all of that play was essentially for nothing, as for someone with my limited depositing, I am never going to be able to win anything substantial unless I am extremely fortunate - something that if nothing else is against the spirit of gambling responsibly and within your limits.

I'd really like this investigated as I am adamant that I am due a large portion of the winnings if not all, or at least the deposits refunded on my account where I was never going to win anything substantial at all!

Hoping you can help,

Jamie M

Dear Jamie,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m very sorry to hear about your negative experience.  I have checked the terms and conditions, and this is what I found: 

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play."

I would like to emphasize that according to our Fair Gambling Codex https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos

'Fair and safe casinos' are those that meet all criteria for 'fair casinos' and have also implemented measures that prevent players from accidentally doing something against the rules or their own best interests.

'Fair and safe casinos' should therefore prevent players from accidentally breaking the T&Cs, Bonus T&Cs, or doing anything else that might jeopardize the money in their player accounts. Specifically, 'fair and safe casinos' should:

Enforce maximum bet sizes, restricted games and other bonus conditions.

Please, could you confirm for me that you were playing without activating a bonus? We will contact the casino and ask for their standpoint, right after your confirmation. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

Thank you so much for your quick response. You’ve captured exactly what I was trying to say in my overview. 
 

I can confirm that there was no bonus activated for any of this play. 
 

many thanks again,

jamie m

Thank you very much Jamie for providing all the necessary information. I will transfer now your complaint to my colleague Matej who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello Jamie M.

Unfortunately, this is a common problem with casinos which use this predatory term:

"Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play."

We believe that rules like this shouldn't force the player always to think how much is 30% of his last deposit and it doesn't make sense in real money play.

Our position is pretty clear. The casino should pay you your winnings.

Recommendation for the casino:  

In case you can't change this rule, then you should consider not to enforce this rule for real money winnings. 

Hi, does the lack of response to the casino impact the complaint at all? Feel as though this issue is continually ignored by them. 

many thanks again

Unfortunately Jamie M, this is a big topic. More casinos are using the same rule, and we argue with all of them that this term doesn't make sense to use for real money play. Most casinos disagree, some of them keep this rule in their T&C's but just don't apply it. But it looks like it is tough for all of them to change this rule.  

I would like to mention that in most of the cases what we had Lord of the Spins casino representatives respond quickly. This problem with this 30% rule is a big thing, and posting here a complicated answer may be harder than you think. Please give them some time to prepare the response.

We would like to ask the Lord of the Spins Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

We can confirm that the winnings of 230EUR were voided as the gameplay failed to comply with the betting rules of the casino.

Majority of the bettings involved were over the limit and the terms and conditions of the casino are fully accepted.

We can see that there are 2 successful withdrawals that have passed through the audit process and were duly paid by the casino.

Unfortunately, we cannot assist in this instance as the terms and conditions were broken.

Regards

LOTS Casino

I am very sorry Jamie M. I am afraid that we can't help you with this case.  

The common problem: lawyers versus common sense.  

We believe that some of the rules in T&C's of Lord of the Spins Casino are predatory. In your case casino used one these rule to confiscate the legitimate winnings from you. But because they have these rules in their T&C's it is tough to get justice here.

We are already punishing Lord of the Spins Casino for having such a rule in their T&C's. Therefore, we are classifying this complaint as "Against fair gambling codex."  The contribution of black points is reduced, but the complaint is still visible as a warning for other players that these rules are not OK.