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Hello!

I had an unpleasant incident with Playouwin that I found on Aksgamblers and where afterwards I submitted a complaint against the casino. The description of the case, whole story of the complaint with Playouwin and Askgamblers’ replies you can find here:

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/playouwin-casino-the-casino-added-an-unclaimed-bonus-to-my-account-and-confiscated-my-winnings-afterwards

I prepared my reply regarding Playouwin’s violation of their own terms and conditions but when I tried to post it I saw the complaint had been closed with no further possibility to be reopen or reconsidered. I post here the text of my reply:

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In their first reply, Playouwin’s representative said: ‘'we work in compliance per our bonus terms and conditions'. But in their second reply we read: 'we do exceptions and this was one and only of them'. So, the terms are sometimes respected and sometimes they are not… It seems that the bookmaker is who decides whether to work according to its terms or on the contrary – to say ‘this violation was just an exception.’

The technical part of this incident is interesting with the fact that the bookmaker pretends of violated bonus requirements although in the player’s account is clearly visible that there are none. But the technical part is just a consequence and the reason is of a legal character that the bookmaker did because his lack of understanding that the rules should be followed just as they are written. I will make a very short digression pointing out the main points of the 'bookmaker-player' relationship after which I will return to the legal part of the present case.

The bookmaker’s terms and conditions, after their acceptance by the player, have the power of a contract between the two parties. The resulting commitments are imperative, i.e. it is obligatory for the two parties to respect the rules just as they are written. It is not permissible to apply them selectively or to ignore them. It is impossible for either one of the sides of the contract to make at his discretion ‘exceptions’ expressed in actions contrary to those written in the rules. In case the bookmaker wants to take actions outside of the contract’s boundaries, he has the opportunity to change the terms and only after the player accept these changes the new rules become applicable.

There is a certain order in the betting industry for actualizing the terms and conditions and it is the following:

1. The bookmaker posts the new version on the website pointing the date they enter into force.

2. The bookmaker somehow notify the players of the change – with an email, a message or when logging in – and ask them to get familiar with the new rules and accept them in order to continue using the bookmaker’s services. 

3. The player on his side get familiar with the new version and choose whether to accept them and continue his activity or not and leave the bookmaker. 

In the specific case:

In order to add a bonus (a bonus namely, not a gift!) to my betting account in Playouwin, there are at least two things that need to be changed:

1. My status should go from ‘NOT entitled’ to ‘entitled’. My status is regulated in section 1.10 of Playouwin’s Bonus terms and conditions, i.e. this section needs to be edited.

2. The order of crediting a bonus to a player’s account needs to be changed, as well. At the moment the player needs to claim it. Probably it would be a good idea if the bonuses are added on the bookmaker’s initiative and the corresponding sections of the rules relevant to the different types of bonuses should be edited. 

During the short period of time I have been using Playouwin’s website I have not been informed of a change in their terms and conditions. The validity of section 1.10 make it legally impossible to determine any bonus relationship between me and Playouwin. So, no bonus engagements could be imputed to my account. 

I believe that Playouwin will respect their own rules and guided by the common sense they will agree the rules should be followed absolutely and unconditionally. The dimension of the consequences from their violation of the terms (already admitted by Playouwin as an ‘exception’) is in the amount of €1,020.42 that needs to be restored to my account.

Hello Bestbets,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward with the case.

Do I understand it correctly that the casino gave you bonus even though you should not be able to claim any bonus? What was the result of that bonus play? What did the casino do after you contacted them with the issue?

Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure that we will be able to do anything with this specific issue as it seems to be a betting related issue and we, as Casino.guru only deal with "casino" related cases. In our lack of knowledge regarding the betting industry I wouldn't dare to make any conclusions or recommend you any concrete steps against the casino.

My only recommendation would be only to contact the licencing authorities of the casino who would be definitely able to help you out whether it is casino or betting related issue.

Please let us know if there is anything casino related issue we could be helpful with, otherwise we will be forced to reject the complaint.

Regards,

Nick

Casino.guru

Hello Nick!

I am replying to your questions in the order you’ve sent them:

1. Do I understand it correctly that the casino gave you bonus even though you should not be able to claim any bonus?

Yes, that is correct. According to clause 1.10 of their rules I am ‘not entitled to receive any type of bonuses’ due to my location.

2. What was the result of that bonus play?

In the next two days after these €60 were added to my account as a bonus, I made 2 deposits of 200 and 300 (€500 in total) and continued betting. The result of my game is a profit in my account of €520.42. The casino confiscated this amount and additional €500 of my deposits, i.e. €1,020.42 in total. I am attaching a file with the list of my transactions where you can see my five deposits of €1,300 in total and one withdrawal of €500.

I also attach a file with my game history where you can see circled in red: the balance of my account before the confiscation: €1,320.42 and the balance after the confiscation: €300, i.e. the confiscated amount is €1,020.42.

3. What did the casino do after you contacted them with the issue?

I was informed in an email by the casino that they confiscate the funds based on clause 1.16 of their rules which mentions the presence of an ‘active bonus’. I apply a screenshot of this email. 

I replied objecting that I had no ‘active bonus’ and applied a screenshot where it is clearly visible. I attach a screenshot with my reply. 

On the next day, I had a new email from the financial department that I apply here as a file-screenshot.

As it is visible from this letter, they hold on their thesis that I have broken their bonus rules in spite of the obvious lack of any bonus engagements. 

Nick, I believe this gives you a detailed reply to all your questions.

You have doubts on your competency because I had played in the sportsbook and your specialty is the casino. Please, notice that the problem does not come from some kind of specifics of the game and does not require any special knowledge. My issue arose when the operator broke his own Bonus terms and conditions that are applicable on any type of play.

Kind Regards,

BestBets

Dear Bestbets,

Based on the attached screenshots and provided additional information, there doesn't seem to be any fraud activity from the casino.

After you claimed the bonus, you deposited 800€. As it was ment to be a casino bonus, which you used in the sportbook category, the bonus was canceled by the casino. However, the deposited amount after taking the bonus was all refunded to you based on your screenshots - 500€ was withdrawn to skrill and you have 300€ left.

Hello Nick!

You say: ‘After you claimed the bonus...’

But I am ‘not entitled to receive any type of bonuses’ due to my location. 

This is clearly visible on this screenshot of clause 1.10 of the casino’s terms and conditions. I have underlined my country with red.

I have not claimed any bonus, I could not even if I wanted.

So, there is a legal obstacle for me to have a bonus engagement with the caisno.

The casino broke its own rules and add a €60 bonus to my account. Regardless the reason, be it some kind of a misunderstanding or on purpose, I pretend that this violation of the rules should be corrected as well as the negative consequences for me (I have explained them in details in my previous post). The rules are imperative for both sides (operator and player) and should be followed as are. 

Kind Regards,

BestBets

Dear Bestbets,

After taking into consideration every aspect of the game we came to a conclusion that we will be continue trying resolve your complaint.

Casinos should only give bonuses to players who are allowed to get them according to the Bonus T&Cs. And if the casino makes the mistake of granting a bonus to a player who shouldn't have received it, the casino shouldn't take it away from them. Instead, the casino should accept that it was their mistake and pay out the winnings to the player.

We also believe that restricted games should be blocked, and this rule enforced at software level, i.e., that the casino's software or website shouldn't let players place bets on the games that are not allowed to be played.

I'll now forward your complaint to my collegue Andrej who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck.

Regards,

Nick

Dear Bestbets,

From now on, I’ll be in charge of your complaint. Please understand that we can’t penalize the casino for crediting the bonus to your account, despite the fact that according to the Terms and Conditions, players from your country are not eligible to receive bonuses. However, as your winnings were voided because of a violation of another policy that we consider unfair, I’ll contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue.

I would like to invite PlaYouWin Casino to join this conversation and participate in the resolution of Bestbets’ complaint.

Dear PlaYouWin Team,

Please note that in Casino Guru, we believe that creating a safe environment for players should be one of the priorities of great online casinos. A part of this safe environment is that restrictions should be implemented on the casino’s side so there's no chance for players to break it by accident. This situation could have been easily avoided. It’s really not hard to implement a feature that won’t allow players to place bets on certain games or access certain sections of the website while playing with an active bonus. Since no such feature has been implemented and Bestbets’ winnings were voided simply because he placed a bet on sports, we consider the decision of the casino to be against fair gambling.

That being said, I’d like to kindly ask you to review this case and reconsider your decision.

We would like to ask PlaYouWin Team to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

Dear Bestbets,

I apologize, but since we haven’t received any response from the casino regarding the issue, we cannot continue resolving this complaint and we are forced to close it as ‘unresolved’.

I am very sorry I couldn't be of more help, but at least closing this complaint as unresolved will negatively influence the casino's rating and other players can read about your experience in our review.

I hope you will never come across a problem like this again.

The casino can reopen this complaint anytime.