Spinago Casino - 플레이어의 상금은 무효화되었습니다.

Hi

I've been a long time user of Spinago casino and have usually not had problems but after a deposit last week I received 250 free spins along with my deposit and with those spins (activated before commence of gambling) i started playing. I checked my turnover and I needed to turnover $16k to withdraw any winnings, with wagering taken into account. I spent about 6-7hrs maintaining my bests under the max bonus bet amount per spin and after clearing the turnover required had a balance of $5000 which I withdrew $3500 of and left $1500 in my account. I checked with live chat to make sure my account was up to date with required paperwork which they said as they can see it's all good.

Shortly after this my account was suspended and I checked with live chat and they just said administraton has suspended my account. I lodged a request from a supervisor or VIP manager to make contact and I received an email stating due to a technical glitch my whole winnings were confiscated due to a technical glitch. I had have not had this elaborated on further more and that they would offer me a $100 free bonus with a low 10x turnover. My problem is how can you possibly met all requirements for withdrawal and have not broken any of the rules and they then have to pull some technical issue to cancel and steal my winnings and they could claim this with anyone's account and just do the same.

I have spent well over 100k with Spinago over the past 3 yrs and I find this highly frustrating and very unbecoming of an online casino provider with a supposed decent reputation.

I'd like some help resolving this please Casino Guru

thanks

Dear mattyjlloyd1982,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Could you please forward any relevant communication along with your game history in Excel format to nikolas.b@casino.guru? Please advise the exact time of the incident.

Meanwhile, please check our article explaining "How slot machines are programmed" https://casino.guru/how-slot-machines-work-math#how-are-slot-machines-programmed and maybe it’ll help to understand how servers communicate with players and what issues might occur on the way.

Please understand, that the casino is mostly not responsive for technical issues related to a game provider and not obligate to pay for any lost balance if the issue was no on their side.

Looking forward to hearing from you. Thank you in advance for your understanding.

Thanks Nik I've forwarded you the remake t information I could get and I'd snapshot from my phone. I didn't get transcripts of all communication with them but have forwarded you the correspondence between my case manager and myself which doesn't really clear anything up.

Thank you mattyjlloyd1982 for all the information provided. I will now forward your complaint to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru) who will be assisting you from now on.

Wish you best luck resolving it.

Regards,

Nick

Hello, mattyjlloyd1982,

I am sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. I will contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Now I would like to invite Spinago Casino's representative to join this conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear Spinago Casino Team,

Could you please provide us with an explanation of the player's situation in more detail?

Thank you in advance for providing the information.

Hello, mattyjlloyd1982 and Branislav,

You were answered that according to our terms and conditions "If the Casino mistakenly credits your Player Account with a deposit, bonus, or winnings that do not belong to you, whether due to a technical issue, error in the paytables, human error or otherwise, the amount and/or the winnings from such bonus or deposit will remain the Casino property and will be deducted from your Player Account. If you have withdrawn funds that do not belong to you prior to us becoming aware of the error, the mistakenly paid amount will (without prejudice to other remedies and actions that may be available at law) constitute a debt owed by you to us. In the event of an incorrect crediting, you are obliged to notify us immediately by email."

https://spinago.com/terms-and-conditions

That's why the winnings were voided.

How did you answer something with "it was a mistake" when it's quite obvious you give out bonus bets at higher limits like I can prove in pictures provided from players on your telegram chat page.

I used the bonus that was available at the time of my deposit and then stayed well inside your rules of max bet amount and wagered the massive $16640 needed to be eligible to withdraw and after placing a withdrawal request in you've then suspended my account and stolen my winnings. If your terms and conditions are that vague then what's stopping you from invoking that clause on any players winnings and confiscating it too?

I played within your rules and you couldn't try and cancel my withdrawal under one of your other shitty conditions so you invoke the the term that say if you win and stay within the guidelines then we can just steal your winnings. I do have the proof that many players receive high limit bets on free spins but somehow mine weren't valid or you didn't want me to win that day cause when others are saying there getting $5 and $7.50 free spins, me in australia is almost always stuck on elvis frog 25c bets and only 3 x have received high limit bets on my deposits and the one I do win on you steal. It's bullshit .

Dear mattyjlloyd1982, as far as I can see, you are probably a little confused. These were not free spins from the telegram channel. You made a deposit on April 13th without a bonus code "CRUCIATUS" and other free spins were added to you due to a technical error.

Moreover, as you can see in the promo, you should be credited with 150 spins, but you got 250 spins.

No the bonus was available without a bonus code needing to be available and I used that because it seemed better than the telegram bonus that was offered on there.

Fact of the matter is I used the bonus that was available to me on my deposit page under bonuses. This was a bonus that was available without entering a bonus code and was the one I decided to use. I met wager requirements and checked with live chat as to if my account was up to date and no identification had expired and as far as I'm concerned I had every right to collect my winnings and if I'd used any different withdrawal method other than bank transfer I would have had my winnings.

The fact you can invoke such widespread and vague information to take players money is bullshit and you could tell someone who had 80c bonus bet that it was a technical error/glitch and they were suppose to be 25c bets and take there winnings with no explanation or proof you were wrong. I have proven that you regularly hand out high value bets and you have just decided that since I won and met your ridiculous wagering requirements and went to cash out you've decided that it's a technical glitch.

I want my money back , how insulting is it to be offered a $100 gift for my inconvenience that I have to wager 10x to compensate me for the 5k I'd legitimately won and didn't need to do anything to, beside put my withdrawal request in to be paid. I won 5k fair and square and you have used underhand tactics and a unfair term and condition to try and weasel your way out of paying out. It's a joke

As you can see my wagering requirements were met on my free spins

Thank you both for your replies.

Dear Spinago Casino Team,

How exactly was the bonus activated? Did the player see it available as well as other bonus offers upon making a deposit, or was it done in a different way that he should not have been allowed to?

Can you please share with me more details regarding the technical issue? What advantage did the player gain by playing with the bonus used? For now, without further details and explanation, it does not look like he tried to abuse the casino's bonus offer or claimed something to which he was not entitled.

If we are talking about a breach of the casino's Terms and Conditions, as you stated, is the casino able to substantiate its decision with relevant evidence?

It is possible to share the data directly here, with your reply, or by sending them to my email address (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Dear, Branislav,

we have just sent the email to your email address.

Have a nice day!

Hi Branislav

I'll attach a picture of the type of bonus that was available to me at time of deposit, although not the exact one this shows the type of deposit that Spinago show you is available to you at time of deposit without need to enter a code because the toggle switch is turned on for "use available bonuses" at time of deposit. Yes there was a telegram deposit code available too which required a code word to be entered and add pressed to validate this was not used as I believed the one I took to be a better deal to use with my deposit.

Thanks Matt.

Hi Branslav

sorry for the confusion I suffer adhd and sometimes get a bit sidetracked and lost in my communications, I was pointing out that I believed that the Spinago team were saying high limit bonus bets were a mistake or technical glitch when I provided proof of players quite regularly receiving high limit free spins of $7.50 and $5.00 and the likes so if that was a technical glitch or however they wish describe it this amount was not unusual for people to receive. I was just trying to show this because I believed that this was what they were trying to convey was there issue with what I received and also that they were claiming that was the bonus I was suppose to have received and that was simply not the case as I had contemplated on which bonus I was to use as they were both available.

I believed the total to turnover although 10x was still high, but I suppose that's subjective to each persons idea of what is required while being governed by max bet amounts I just tried to explain myself and the fact that as you have been able to come to the conclusion as well that,

I had not broken any terms and conditions nor had I taken anything that was clearly not available to me at the time of deposit and that if they could simply reverse a decision on the grounds they were claiming then that's very dangerous territory for all online gamblers because it says if you win legitimately and honestly and stay within our terms and conditions we still have the right to say what you received you were not entitled to and we are going to invoke our right to say it was a technical error and we have the rights to confiscate your winnings even though you did not break any rules or do anything underhanded to cheat or manipulate the outcome, I simply deposited my money and did what was required for me to meet the requirements of a cash out.

Thank you for your efforts in helping to resolve Branslav and all Casino Guru staff and I hope The Spinago team can see this in the same light you have because if not then it's very dangerous territory for all online gamblers. 👍🏽

Alright, mattyjlloyd1982. Thank you for your explanation. Now, let's wait for the casino's response.

Hello, Branislav,

firstly, I was to underline that in the Telegram chat was discussed another free spins, and here we do not discuss bet amount. There was an error with issuing of bonuses, not this one player suffered from it. The player did not violate rules, he played with invalid free spins, unfortunately.

We do not see how the game logs are connected to the issue.

Furthermore, we are not allowed to share the information regarding other players to the third party, all the communication could be held only on the matters connected to the complainer.

We also kindly ask you to pay attention, that after the bonus has been cancelled in the player's account, the deposit amount connected to this bonus was added to the player's balance in the casino account (50 AUD).

And as far as we see, the complainer has already played these funds.

Hi Spinago Team

I would like to request a copy of my player logs from the last 3 months. You can email them to me at my email address you have associated with my account.

Many thanks

Matt.

Alternatively Spinago Team you have my full disclosure to provide my information to a third party. That being any and all representative's from the Casino Guru team and be emailed to Branslav @ Branislav.b@casino.guru

The private details from the player's account could be shared with:

• the player after they verify their identity (pass the DPO quiz/upload a photo of ID +/or a selfie with ID)
• or the player's representatives with the official document showing that this person/company are allowed to promote the player's interest (the power of attorney etc.).

After this, the player may dispose the provided document as they want.

And we want to stress the fact that the player's logs are not connected to the issue, as after the bonus cancellation, the deposit associated with this bonus was returned to the player's casino account.  

Hi Branislav

I requested my player logs on Monday 16/05/2023 they have advised that this may take up to a month to be received by email but I'll forward this over once I have received it.

Matt

Greetings all,

I am sorry for the delay.

Thank you very much for your help, mattyjlloyd1982, but I think it maybe will not be necessary. I did not have some details before, but the casino representative has already confirmed that you did not violate the rules. That was the point.

Now I am extending the timer for myself by a few days, and I will discuss the case internally with my team during our regular Wednesday meeting. Once I have the outcome of the discussion, I will let you know. It should not be later than Wednesday evening.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Alright, I am back with fresh news from our internal discussion. Thank you both for your patience.

Dear Spinago Casino team,

First, I would like to comment on some of your claims above.

Need of the player's game logs - we usually ask the casinos for all the relevant details and data to review and assess the cases sufficiently on our side. Specifically, in this case, it could help us to check the player's balance(s), bets made, if the significant winnings were won from his deposit or he won them after the deposit was lost, whether the winnings were won from the first 150 FS or the 100 mistakenly offered FS was used for collecting them, etc.

Although we are not talking about any personal information when I am asking about the error occurrence on other players' accounts, we understand that the casino cannot share some sensitive details. So I could ask about the same in a different way - would the casino refund the complainant's deposit if his deposit and the provided bonus were lost?

As for the refunded deposit and the information that he gambled it away - since the player did not breach any Bonus rules and he met all the requirements for the bonus that was offered to him, the confiscated winnings should be already considered real money balance, so it could be enough to deduct the amount of the refunded and lost deposit from his winnings.

As was explained above in my previous posts, where our attitude was slightly indicated, at today's meeting, the team unanimously agreed on the same. Based on the nature of the error, that it occurred on the casino's side, and the fact that the player did not breach any Bonus Terms and Conditions, we concluded that the winnings were obtained legitimately, and also referring to our Fair Gambling Codex (available HERE), we recommend the casino reconsider its decision to confiscate the player's winnings.

Since our opinion and attitude should be clear now, and assuming the player would not accept any compromise as a solution to the issue, is the casino please able and willing to restore the player's confiscated winnings cleared from the lost deposit amount?

Hello,

in our opinion, we have reached a fairly certain impasse with Casinoguru.

According to our Terms and Conditions, Spinago can’t pay winnings to the player from the bonus as it was credited per human error.

Our decision can’t be changed, unfortunately.

Hope for your understanding.

That just proves how unethical your business operates and shows even when your position is clearly one of double standards the Spinago team will cheat there way out of cause if someone goes over a max bet they are classed as messing up and lose there winnings but if you guys stuff up it's somehow our fault still and we have to pay. When do you shoulder some of the responsibility for your actions, cause all I see is where liable to have our winnings confiscated if we do the wrong thing and on the other hand where liable to have our winnings confiscated if we did nothing wrong and you guys did, we are still liable to lose our winnings.

Spinago team why not deduct the $1664 from the legitimate $5000 in winnings then?

No because that would require you to operate ethically then wouldn't it? and we all know that's not what your about here. Any other reputable company and business would come to a better outcome than this when if standing back looking at the facts at hand the whole issues here lies solely on your incompetence and stupidity not mine. I'm just the poor person that has to wear the financial implications of your supposedly incompetent staff. A get out of jail free card that makes your company reek of hypocrisy and double standards cause to treat your clients with such contempt of Do as I say not as I do says enough about your ethics and integrity and how much you value your customers loyalty.

I hope Casino Guru's downgrade of your trustworthiness score has a big financial impact that far out weighs the $5000 you stole of me. Jordan Peterson once said you can't twist the fabric of reality and not have it spring back and bite you in the arse in the future and I'll live happily knowing that karma will get you back based solely upon the fact that I know I did nothing wrong here and you I know can't say the same thing even when hiding behind your shady terms and conditions you can jump behind under any circumstances you find fit.

Thanks for being a bunch of scumbags Spinago Casino I hope you find satisfaction in the fact you cheated a loyal customer out of their legitimately obtained winnings.

When wealth is lost, nothing is lost. when health is lost, something is lost; when character is lost, all is lost. . You lost everything here Spinago team

Greetings all,

I am sorry for the delay.

Dear mattyjlloyd1982,

Since we are talking about a very specific case, although we do not completely agree with the casino's approach and decision regarding the issue for the reasons stated above, and we try to help players in resolving their issues, I would like to avoid a situation that our attitude could be distorted by not considering all aspects of the case. It means we try to look at all complaints individually and objectively, and we should also take into account the casino's point of view. Therefore, I went through the case once again in detail and would like to point out some points and facts that were overlooked for a while. I think your screenshots from Telegram make more sense to me now, and I already know why you shared them with us. Unfortunately, the bonus you used was much more advantageous compared to any deposit bonus offered by the casino, even compared to the one offered on Telegram.

I am also reminding a part of one of my posts above, which says about the significant advantage of using the bonus in question.

"As for the wagered amount - you stated a massive AUD16,640 - it is not so massive at all, and obviously, the bonus was set up with very advantageous conditions that are rare in online casinos. More Free Spins with much fewer wagering requirements compared to the casino's standard Free Spins (40x). But, on the other side, it looks like you did not breach anything."

As, in normal circumstances, the rules as the applied one we consider fair, and we only do not agree with a way of applying the rule by the casino in this specific case, I will have to discuss the case internally again, considering all the aspects of the case in order to be sure we proceeded with the matter correctly, and I will be back with the final results as soon as possible, on Wednesday evening at the latest.

In the meantime, could you please provide me with the information on whether you have already been provided with your gameplay history? If yes, can you forward it to me by email?

Feel free to use my email (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Thank you very much for your patience and understanding, and I am sincerely sorry for the inconvenience caused by dragging the process out. However, it is very important for us to be 100% sure about the matter.

I’ve sent them through Branislav

regards Matt

Thank you very much, mattyjlloyd1982. I will review it carefully as soon as possible.

Just also letting you know that the internal meeting was postponed to Friday.

I am sorry, and I believe I will provide you with our final decision by the end of this Friday.

Hey Branislav

I assume you guys must be under the pump so let’s not let me hold you up any more because at the end of the day sometimes the good guys lose and although the Spinago Casino Team do have that shady little T&C they can cover there incompetent little butts under when questioned on matters they definitely give 0% Lea way to when the shoes on the other foot, show know remorse on the fact they stuffed up here or so they claim, but I wear the costs cause there T&C’s say so.

I guess it’s an expensive lesson learned that even the big players operating who you thought had integrity and were fair are still infected by that horrible illness we call greed and there just better actors or word there T&C’s better than there competition. I know the associated player logs 100% show I did nothing wrong it’s still not going to get me my money back so invest your energy helping punters who genuinely need help.

Branislav I can’t thank you enough for the effort you’ve taken in trying to get a positive result for me and all the Casino Guru Team your all saints and Thank you from not just me but every punter who has had a positive outcome when they didn’t do anything wrong and from all of us we’d like to say Thank you too guys.🎈🖤😌

Ill still be interested in what the outcome is from what your findings produce and I hope it hurts there revenue this financial year but I already know how it plays out and I’m left feeling vindicated but still a painful lesson learned at the end of the day but I believe good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. I know which side of the tracks I’m on and I’ll leave it at that.

cheers guys much love 🫶🏼

Spinago team 🖕🏽

Greetings all,

I am sincerely sorry for the delay.

Dear Spinago Casino team,

Can you please provide me with the following information:

• What was the value of 1 free spin within the 150 Free Spins bonus offer presented via Telegram, and what were the terms and conditions for this bonus if there are any special ones?
• What was the value of 1 free spin within the mistakenly provided 250 free spins used by the player?
• Are we talking about a regularly depositing player who reached VIP status?
• What are the complainant's overall deposits and withdrawals made to/from the casino?
• Is the casino able to at least think about a compromise, or is the decision to confiscate the player's winnings final and unchangeable?

Please note if the casino's decision is final and remains unchanged, we will be forced to advise the player to consult the regulator itself. In addition, it could likely influence the casino's rating in Casino.Guru in a negative way. All reputable and big casinos have terms and conditions, but it should not be an obstacle to being fair to loyal players. However, I will wait for answers to the questions above.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Greetings,

We don't see the point in providing this data because we don't understand how the two bonuses are connected. It is unfortunate that we have reached a dead end. The bonus was issued due to human error, the deposit was returned. However, the player is not happy with this. We refunded the funds to the player, I hope this will please him.

Best regards, Spinago Casino.

Dear Spinago Casino team,

The player pointed out that the casino provides its players with better bonuses and bonus terms and conditions through social media compared to its common bonus offers and general terms and conditions. But, it is not completely clear from the screenshots provided by the player from Telegram. Basically, it was likely the reason why he made a deposit.

Can you please clarify what you meant by "We refunded the funds to the player, I hope this will please him"?

Did you mean only the mentioned returned deposit, or did you mean anything else (disputed funds)?

I have received some of it but not all of it Branislav. I was given the withdrawal amount back $3500 but not the full amount that was taken

I would like to ask the Spinago team to returned the other $1500 minus the $50 returned already $1450.

If you had reached an impasse on weeks ago and were within your belief that you had operated in a fair and just manner and your T&C’s backed you up on this should this go before your governing body then stand your ground and welcome the Casino Guru team to take that road as it will justify and show you were right and you well within your rights to do as you did.

To drag this out for 2 months and then expect me to somehow be content with only some off my winnings back is not something I can walk away from feeling like justice has prevailed and my claims of not doing anything wrong and accepting what was offered to me and sticking to rules to be anything but just that.

To act like a spoiled child asked to return the lollipop you stole from another child but only giving a big over half back and expecting that to please the child (person bring me in this scenario) is not something I can accept.

My Father was diagnosed with cancer a week before I won this money and I was ecstatic about my win because my parents are retired and I had suffered some very bad mental health issues after my marriage ended which in turn cost my parents a lot of money while I suffered through some crippling depression and my attempts to not deal with feeling that way. I was going to be able to return the favour and help them with associated costs of tests and take my parents on a weekend away to there favourite place before treatment starts. So this money meant a lot to me along why I may have at times been overly passionate. I just want back what I won and still help do something for the people who helped me still be here today. I’m asking you Spinago team to just do what’s fair here. I am not trying to act like a victim here but just explain as to why I’ve been quite critical and passionate about not giving up on what is right.

Dear Branislav,

We have refunded the player's deposit ($50) and the withdrawal amount that was confiscated ($3500). The player has already withdrawn and received these funds.

Best regards, Spinago Casino.

I would of had $5000 sitting in withdrawal if I was aware that you had changed your max amount to a weekly amount not daily. I don’t know how you think you can just ignore the fact that there was $1500 sitting in my players account I had planned to with draw the next business day.

I’m sorry that being held accountable is such a horrible thing for to handle Spinago team and you obviously care more about being investigated with your governing body and losing some trustworthiness score than you do about doing the right thing by your customers and vip players.

Why is doing the right thing so painful for you guys?

Thank you both for your replies and updates.

Dear Spinago Casino team,

We highly appreciate your approach and willingness to reconsider your original decision. However, why only a pending withdrawal was returned to the player?

What happened with the rest of the confiscated funds, please? Was anything from them lost by playing? Will they be returned to the player's account? Are you please aware that although a part of the winnings was returned and penalization would be lower, in case the casino decided not to restore the rest of the winnings, we will not be able to close the complaint as successfully resolved? Why all of the disputed winnings were not restored?

Would be an option for the casino to credit the rest of the confiscated winnings (minus the previously returned deposit of 50 AUD), restrict the player from playing, and allow him to only withdraw them?

We have added additional sum, the player can make a withdrawal request.

We hope that the player will be satisfied.

Thank you for waiting.

We wish you all the best!

Thank you very much, Spinago Casino team, for the update.

Dear mattyjlloyd1982,

Can you please confirm the above-stated? Can we consider your issue resolved?

Hi Branislav sorry for the long response time I’ve just had the week from hell as some asshole ran over my daughter on her way to school and they didn’t even stop. I’ve pretty much lived in a hospital the last week which hasn’t been fun. She survived but that’s all that matters right now. I’m still amazed by the fact some asshole could run over a 12 yr old kid and not stop even when she was on a crosswalk. 🤯

Anyways back to the payout we are so close I can see the finsh line but unfortunately due to human error or a just a little F U to me from Spinago they transferred me $1405 not $1450. I’m hoping this was just a little human error but. So If Spinago Casino could just put that $45 over we can officially close this long and tiring battle.

As soon as it’s in I’ll let you know it is resolved Branislav

Thanks Matt

Hello,

sorry 50$ has just been added.

Thank you both very much for the updates.

Dear mattyjlloyd1982,

I am sorry for the unpleasant experience with your daughter and hope she will be well soon.

Since the casino confirmed your account was credited with the remaining funds, can we please consider the issue successfully resolved and closed?

Hey Branislav

Thank you so much for all your help and all of the people at Casino Guru. You guys are amazing and I’m thankful for help like you wouldn’t believe.

You can officially mark this off as Resolved mate.

Matt

Great news, mattyjlloyd1982!

Thank you for confirmation and for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution centre. I am very glad you have received your funds. As the issue has been resolved, I will now mark your complaint as 'resolved' in our system. Although I sincerely hope it will not happen, please do not hesitate to contact us in the future if you run into any issues with this or any other casino. We are here to help.

Thank you very much, Spinago Casino team, for your cooperation and willingness to help us in resolving the matter!

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.guru