Vavada Casino - 플레이어의 계정이 불규칙한 게임 플레이로 기소되었습니다.

November 23rd 2021 I have registered on the web-site of online casino VAVADA. I made two deposits in the total amount of $8000 using cryptocurrency USDT. My total live BJ game resulted in a loss of $1525. My total result of slot games was a win of $7602.81 including welcome and free-spins bonuses. No winnings at blackjack were acquired. So all my winnings were achieved from slot games and bonuses and total balance of my account was $14077.81

After withdrawal request of $1200 I have been requested for verification, then VAVADA instantly announced that "I used special game strategies for illegal profit or money laundering and all my winnings will be canceled and my deposit also will not be refunded. The account is closed forever and the decision is final. The access to my account is limited"

In email VAVADA accused me in card counting. No any problems with my slot games or account itself were raised. There were no any mention of "card counting" marked as the special game strategy on VAVADA's T&C. With a reference to game provider (Evolution) they accused me in violation VAVADA's T&C 16.1.6 (using special game strategies for illegal profit or money laundering) and all funds were seized in accordance to term 16.5. 

All my slots winnings and deposits were withheld, no evidences were provided, only references to game provider report (not shown) and card-counting accusations.

Casino insists "card counting" is a "special game strategies for illegal profit or money laundering" thus they have right to withheld everything. 

Hello ladygaga,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your negative experience.

Would you be so kind and send me all the relevant communication between you and the casino, so we can gather as much information as possible? My email address is kristina.s@casino.guru.

I hope, we will help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Kristina

Thank you very much ladygaga for your email. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej (matej@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Hello ladygaga.

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

I would like to invite the casino representative into the discussion.

Would you please explain what happened?

Hello ladygaga. We've already discussed about this situation on the few sources and explained it in detail. We enclose the links:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/ladygaga-vs-vavada-casino.96151/#post-1228720

https://affgambler.ru/casino-complaints/neobosnovannoe-izyatie-balansa-blokirovka-akkaunta/

We ask the source administrators check our answers out going to the links as well.

We're also ready to provide the provider's message screenshot to the administrator of this source.

Just have a notice that on the links above no additional information was provided to me and no evidences were exposed. Yet no accusations except "card counting" were raised.

Casino claims "card counting" is a "special game strategies for illegal profit or money laundering" that obviously a false statement and none of the resourses above even tried to get into the problem.

Casinomeiser stated the Curasao is "shady busines" and "rules are whatever they are in Curasao". And this just a forum thread not official complaint. Complaint was 100% private and as said above no evidences of information were presented to me. I don't accept it as a proper resolution.

Vavada as Curasao casino went further and violated even their own rules.

Hello ladygaga.

Please check the second link. 

On https://affgambler.ru/ forum, the casino explained that you didn't play slots with the bonus, but you made 29 bets on live games with active bonus + during your play on live games did opposite betting, and that was the reason to closing your account. The casino sent proofs to affgambler.ru, and they accepted them as valid. Would you please explain that? Meanwhile, can the casino representative send the same proofs to matej@casino.guru? Thanks

Well, as my vavada account was immediately blocked I didn't have access to hand history thus I couldn't represent exact bet sequence. Yes I got some small bonus of freespins in slots firstly and cleared the wager on slots. But my main aim was to play live BJ. After free spins was wagered I poceeded to live BJ with a first-deposit bonus and played blackjack . I have been told I must clear the welcome bonus and live game contribution is 0% (zero) means not possible to wager the welcome bonus at live casino tables. Otherwise I just could not withdraw anything and if I canceled the bonus I would loose everything that on my account. 

My slot game was thus forced by casino (as I couldn't take back even my deposit without it), I must put 35000USD wager in slots to clear the bonus. So I did and I got about 7500USD in slots winning (including 1000USD welcome bonus) and exactly this funds were seized for some reason. And rest of my deposit as well.

Basically this is irrelevant. I provided this information as I thought they accused me in "bonus hunting". But as they don't have any accusations on my slot games why this matters? The only thing matters is that all my winnings come from slots ONLY!

As for affgamblers... They gave casino 7 days to respond but they gave me less than an hour after casino answered and closed the case. I didn't even had time to respond. I have no idea what information vavada sent them and cannot comment the so-called "Evolution report" as I never seen that. Affgamblers just rejected the case without any proper explanation. I would call this injustice.

What is OPPOSITE BETTING in relation to game of Blackjack??? It is not possible to do such kind of betting at blackjack otherwise could you present the example of such bets? This is not roulette or baccara. This is not possible Evolution could accuse me in opposite betting or this is obvious mistake. Thanks a lot you pointed me to this information! Seems like a fake!

Dear ladygaga.

I still didn't receive the evidence from the casino. I will write here more after I check them, and we can look closer at what exactly happened.

While you awaiting casino answer please check recently resolved case with vavada:

https://casino.guru/vavada-casino-player-s-account-has-been-suspended

All circumstances are the same: player played blackjack, player lost at blackjack, player was falsely accused in OPPOSITE BETTING by Evolution, casino followed this report and blocked his account, casino withheld player's funds. But finally they confirmed some irregularity from Evolution report as OPPOSITE BETTING technically impossible at blackjack thus this was false report. More to say this happened within nearly the same time frame. Probably some massive false reports from Evolution side.

My case is identical but for some reason casino holding my funds more than a month and not going to resolve. The difference is only in disputed amount. Casino shall follow some logic and take similar decisions in similar circumstances. 

Dear ladygaga,

The casino answered that in your case, the reason they void your winning was card counting and not opposite betting. Our opinion is that card counting is not cheating at all. You played smart, that's all.

All you used for that "cheating" is your brain. In classic casinos, when the casino notice that some individual is counting the cards, they may refuse the player as a customer, but the casino always pays the winnings.

There is a super simple strategy for all online casinos to avoid this - shuffle the cards more often.

Basically, the casino is manipulating facts and evidences.

Firstly in accordance to affgamblers they said Evolution reported me and accused me in prohibited technics known as 'opposie betting'. This is clearly stated there. You wrote me bout it as well. And this is no doubt false accusations.

Secondly they wrote me at casinomeister forum: "Hello! I suggest you to read what I've wrote to you on this source once again. On the website where you've reported a complaint before, the provider've texted us by himself and told that you use the unallowed schemes. Card counting action was found unfair by the provider and that's was communicated to us."

When they understood "oppotite betting" is a wrong reason they changed version to card counting. Casino took safe side saying - it's not us it's Evolution. Resolve the issue with them. But Evolution never accused me in card counting. They falsely accused me in "oppotite betting". This is out of any logic.

As I totaly agree with you that card counting is not "unfair scheme" of play yet again all my winnings derived from slots ONLY! So my positive balance in this casino of no relation to card-counting, blackjack and Evolution all together.

Vavada shall stop hopping from one version to another and check recently resolved case - what decision they took under the same circumstances. Still waiting adequate and fair solution from their side to pay full balance of USD 14077.

Dear Ladygaga.

After checking all the evidence, we discovered that you got winnings from BlackJack while your bonus was still active. By doing so, you gained an unfair advantage because this bonus was possible to wager on slots only.

We do not consider card counting as cheating. However, by using bonus funds on table games, you violated the bonus terms and conditions, and therefore you have no right to the winnings.

(Your winnings are not only from slots, but most of the winnings are from BJ)

Dear Vavada casino, 

It would be very good to enforce restricted games by software and do not allow players to wager bonuses on restricted games.

Let me clarify the situation once again. 

The bonus was active and I was planning to wager the bonus at live game. At that moment I didn't know that it's not possible. When I realized bonus can't be wagered at live games I asked to cancel the bonus by support. But suddenly I have been told that in accordance to the bonus rules when doing bets at ANY game (including live) all winnings come to bonus account not to real money account. And following that rule at that point I already didn't have any real money but only bonus money. If I canceled the bonus all the bonus amount would be withheld and I would have 0. So what to do? I had about 3500USD or so on my 'bonus account' (actually it was still my money but vavada moved them to bonus account). 

No ANY restrictions to play ANY games were raised to me yet I contacted support so many times on the matter. So I continued to play Blackjack decided if I loose - Ok, but if I win I will wager the bonus at slots later. So I did. At what point I got 'unfair advantage'? I didn't have intention to get any advantage from bonus and clearly asked to CANCEL the bonus but vavada strictly rejected my claim.

Like you said - there are no any software restrictions playing live games with active bonus. There are no any verbal restrictions from support or T&C. And secondly all my winning bets from live game have been moved to BONUS account by vavada - I played live game, I won some bets but all winnings went to bonus account. And now I am accused in using 'bonus' funds? Do I get you right? 

If live game not connected to bonus program - why this happened? Vavada told me this rule is for ANY game I play. There were no any restrictions raised to my live BJ game when bonus active. Wager contribution from live game is ZERO but winnings go to bonus account. From my point of view here casino not me gained 'unfair advantage' having moved my real cash to bonus account and now saying I used 'bonus' funds. How is that possible?

There is no clear warning or statement that I can wager bonus at SLOTS only or live game with active bonus is restricted on vavada T&C. How to know this? On the contrary they told me to feel free play ANY games. And all winning bets from ANY game go to BONUS account - this is UNFAIR! When I knew it all my funds became "bonus funds' already and I became the hostage of this casino do you understand this?  

Vavada accepted all my live BJ bets, vavada moved all my winning live BJ bets from real to bonus account - seeing no problem with my BJ game, rejected my claim to cancel the bonus and finally accused in using bonus funds? Really? If I cant't wager the bonus at live games then I shall got my live BJ winnings bets to real money account isn't it?

As for my blackjack 'winnings' as you said - there is a game history by game provider. Following Evolution data total BJ game resulted in a loss of -1500 USD (or so). No matter what funds I used - I put 8000USD in and got 6500USD back. What 'blackjack winnings' are you talking about?

Now they or you changed version again, started from 'opposite bets' accusations from game provider, continued with 'card counting' accusations from vavada, followed by 'bonus hunting' accusations from casino guru. What is my fault finally?

Matej, please clarify - this thoughts about 'bonus rules violation' is from your own or this is from vavada? And also the question why casino don't answer in public but communicating with you somewhere else? 

Just a small addition on my live BJ game. In accordance to game provider (Evolution) data during my short game play in vavada:

Total bets made: 109860 USD

Total result: -1525 USD (MINUS 1525 USD)

By what logic I 'WON' at blackjack?

If casino grants player with a bonus it shall not appeal to unfair advantage got from bonus. Of course the bonus is some additional money player can use for betting - but this is meaning of the bonus.

In my case:

• I got the bonus
• I realized bonus cannot be wagered the game I play (live blackjack)
• My live blackjack game was affected by active bonus as all my winnings from BJ game went to bonus account (NOT to real money account, yet I used real money for betting and game contribution to bonus wagering was 0, but still winnings were paid to bonus score)
• I claimed to CANCEL the bonus (unfair yep?)
• My claim to cancel the the bonus was rejected.
• I have been pushed to wager the bonus in slots in amount of 30000 USD roll-over.
• I fulfilled this requirement.
• I have been accused in whatever: opposite betting (where and when?), card counting (at slots? or at blackjack where I lost?), bonus hunting (after my claim to cancel the bonus?).

When all my real money were moved to bonus score of course I used 'bonus money' for later wagering. As all my real money turned to be bonus (very fair). Stating that I got unfair advantage from bonus under this circumstances is a facts manipulation and breach in logic.

Also please find attached couple of screenshots I made during my slot game confirming I hit top combination of 77777 with a single payment of 6000 USD and state of my balance in certain moment during my final welcome bonus wagering:

All this can be derived from a game history by vavada. I don't have access to game history since my account have been blocked.

All this discussion about 'card counting', unfair bonus advantage etc is just an informational noise. Th matter of fact is vavada clearly stated the initial report was from Evolution relating to my blackjack game with 'opposite betting' accusations technically impossible at BJ game. And following this report they denied to pay my balance and slots winnings under false game provider accusations.

Why we are discussing this with you? Casino representative ignores this thread. They missed 7-days dead-line 2 times not showing here and not going to resolve the issue. I'm waiting you to finalize the case to go through legal procedures. I have no more time for this internet chatting.

You have some part of responsibility here as this casino is on a 'perfect reputation' list for some reason and I registered in vavada following your recommendation. Not by any chance I suggest anyone to deposit a single dollar to this casino. Please take the decision.

Could you please clarify what term restricts using bonus amount from wagering in live games? And from what term I can know that game contribution from live game is 0? You can know it only from betting experience but when you realize it all your money moved to bonus account (in accordance to 10.2.1) and you are in a trap. You have only bonus money, you can't withdraw, you can't cancel the bonus as you loose everything, you can't do anything. You can just continue to play. And no restriction in games. What are you really talking about? At no time vavada accused me in improperly used bonus funds, this is out of the question. Read carefully T&C and please review your answer:

10. BONUS MONEY

10.1. A 100% first deposit bonus is always available for all new players on vavada.com. The first deposit bonus is offered only for the first player’s deposit and is equal to the amount of the first deposit. Bonus money is an amount of credits equivalent to real money and given to a user by a casino on a free-of-charge basis. These money bonuses are used only in the casino and can be cashed out once the x35 wagering requirements are fulfilled. When you request a withdrawal, an unused first deposit bonus is canceled.

10.2. You can activate a bonus or refuse from it at any time on your own using interface in the player’s profile.

10.2.1. When you activate a bonus:

- The amount of bonus is added to your bonus balance and kept separately from your cash balance.

- When you place a bet, it is deducted from your cash balance. If there are no sufficient funds on your cash balance, a bet will be deducted from your bonus balance.

- All winnings are credited to your bonus balance and cannot be converted into cash until the bonus wagering requirements are fulfilled. You cannot withdraw the bonus itself until the wagering of bonus is completed.

- When the wagering requirements are fulfilled, the amount of money on your bonus balance relative to the active bonus is transferred to your cash balance and you can withdraw it at any time.

- Unwagered bonuses place no restrictions on withdrawal from your real (cash) account. However, in case of withdrawal all unwagered active bonuses which are located on your bonus account are annulled.

10.2.2. You can cancel the bonus at any time. In the case of the bonus cancellation, the money which is on this account will be canceled.

10.3. When winning is formed by bets accomplished on bonus money, payment of winning shall not exceed 10-fold size of the charged bonus.

Hello LadyGaga.

We've explained our position about your unfair game in the previous complaints. Let me duplicate the information onсe again and answer your questions:

1. As for the payments of the winnings on the bonus balance, it's all set out in our Terms and Conditions: 10.2.1. During the registration you agree with it. According to our dialogue I can also see that you were introduced to the T&C.

2. Indeed, we have no any restrictions on the live games playing. One and only moment is wagering the bonus is available only in slot games and you could have read it in the bonus description in the appropriate tab.

3. Our employees haven't the access to your account and can't do anything in it. You can ALWAYS cancel any bonus on your own and it's set out in our Terms and Conditions as well: 10.2.2. There is a "Cancel" button in the "Bonuses" tab specially for it.

You're talking that your claim about the bonus cancelling was denied but it's technically impossible as the bonus cancelling is ALWAYS available for the player.

4. When applying to the support team you was also informed that wagering is available only in slot games.

5. As for your screenshots from the slot game, it were certainly not last bets in your bonus wagering. After the 6 000 USD winning you made some 1500 bets, both slot games and live games.

Our project is really established itself as fair and credible of many players and many geos.

We're always open to dialogue with our players. It's in all our interests to keep the client satisfied and find a compromise in any contentious situations.

Although in this case the security service and our lead analysts have checked your account and have convinced in violations described by the provider earlier.

 We're not saying that all your bets in the BJ were a winning but most of it which formed your final balance were actually get in the Evolution lobby.

We're not also saying that you didn't get the winnings in the slot games including the winning from your screenshot. It had indeed been but the analysis of your game proves that you've received the money because of the card counting (we and Evolution Gaming consider that it is prohibited tactic).

Thank you for answer. 

As for your items 1-5 let's make this story short, I didn't have full information on bonus wagering and this is my fault that I put myself in trap with your bonus rules. So I had to wager 35000 USD in slots finally to release all the funds. But you don't have any accusations related to my game-play using bonus funds. Of course if I got you right. This is not the issue anyway, just to make things clear.

As for your statement that "most of my BJ bets formed my final balance" and "I get money from a card-counting" sorry to say but this is direct lie. You DO have hand history. Me not. Please provide game data of my slots game and my blackjack game and all the bonuses credited. So we can see how my final balance formed. I did lost at blackjack - if you summarize all my wins and losses at blackjack you will get result of -1525 USD you can easily get information from Evolution lobby as I did when I had access. By what logic someone can call it a 'win'?

So finally we come to a clear point that you have only 'card counting accusations' at the game where I lost. Yet it doesn't explain why you initially mentioned "opposite betting" at affgamblers and what is it.

So if you call yourself reputable and fair please release my initial deposit of 8000 USD and my slots winnings not related to Evolution and card-counting. 

As for my data:

Deposit + 8000 USD

Welcome bonus + 1000 USD

Slots Game + 6602 USD (there is a small amount of free-spins winnings included I don't remember the value)

Blackjack game -1525 USD

With a total of 14077 USD

You have my USDT address I provided you at my last and the only cashout request, or you can use Casino Guru as mediator or you can unblock my account to do withdrawal normally. Or we continue via legal procedures. What to do? All my winnings were 100% legal.

Hello, let me repeat one more time: your account was blocked without an opportunity to unblock for violating the site rules and for the intentional fraudulent actions.

Your principal winning were actually get in the Black Jack by the prohibited method - card counting the provider was talking about.

We're not saying that you got the winnings only in BJ and that's it. You got the winnings in the slot games as well, for example the winning from your screenshot, but after the slots winnings you've continued to play in BJ where the violation was.

You've mentioned the sums of winnings in your message but probably you didn't consider losing bets for all the game session.

Our decision is final.

Maybe you didn't consider my losing sessions and it seems for you I'm won? Evolution lobby and game history clearly states the results. MINUS 1525 USD - this is the FACT. Ask Evolution for confirmation. Probably you forgot about 1000 USD credited as a bonus. I have played several slot games between BJ hands and won a lot - maybe you forgot to consider? When I stopped playing blackjack and managed to do final bonus wager at slots the balance was something about 8700 USD.

So 8000 USD deposit + 1000 USD bonus + slot winnings + BJ 'winnings' = 8700 USD

What mathematics do you use?

After final bonus wagering when balance reached 14077 USD (the screenshot was made while auto game was in progress) I haven't made a single bet at blackjack at all. If you say violation was AFTER - this is LIE again. AFTER I headed to cashier and requested withdrawal. What violation made after are you talking about??? I HAVEN"T made any BJ bets after.

Casino ignores the question about false accusation on 'opposite betting' actually raised by Evolution. Casino telling direct lie about game results keeping player away from a game history. Casino withhold money won at slots under card counting'accusations. Casino is not intended to find a solution and clearly stated this. Casino behaving in this manner cannot be on a reputable and perfect reputation list.

Regardless on all said above card counting is not forbidden tactic anyway. It's time for Casino Guru to finalize the case.

Just for information for Casino Guru. This is example on what player can see from Evolution Lobby. This data is NOT from vavada as I have been banned there and have no access. But just an example.

You can get results date by date, you can expand certain date to see all the bets made on this day and you can even see the particular hand and cards dealt.

In this example player played 4 days and you can see total bets made and a total result (if summarize). And you can check it hand by hand with a cards dealt. Same data stored on casino's side. Again - this data NOT from vavada!

It's very stupid from vavada's side trying to convince you or anyone else that I have won at blackjack and trying to fake hand history results. And at the same time trying to discuss about their reputation. 

Anyway it's not matter of this issue whether I won or lost at blackjack. It's just another example of unfair casino behavior.

Same for highly likely faked Evolution report. As in accordance to the vavada answer initial report was on 'opposite betting' (see affgamblers) not on 'card counting' but they avoid to explain for more than 2 months how it turned from one to another and what is opposite betting exactly.

Last casino answer is quite straight and clear. This is not a premium reputation casino - don't misguide other players and put their money in danger.

Dear Ladygaga and Vevada Casino representative:

After considering all the evidence provided by Ladygaga and the casino, we believe that the casino had the right to void Ladygaga's winnings.

1. It was possible to cancel the bonus which should be used only on slots and Ladygaga was informed about that.
2. By using these bonus funds on BlackJack Ladygaga gain an unfair advantage.
3. She tried to wager the amount on slots but used winnings from BJ.
4. Because she was counting cards (which we do not consider in any way as fraud) we believe we cannot consider her as a recreational player and she was well aware of what she is doing and that she is breaching the casino terms.
5. The majority of the wagering and winnings were done on BJ.

Because of that, we believe that the casino is correct in its decision.

1. It was possible but doing this I would cancel all the amount of money that was on my account. It was 0 on my real cash and 3147.71 USD on my bonus account and if I cancel the bonus all the amount turned to 0. So by cancelling the bonus I mean they just deduct the amount of bonus credited - 1000 USD and release the rest of my 2147.43 USD. Casino rejected my claim. Yes I could press the CANCEL button but in this case I would have 0 on my casino account. What was the logic of this kind of cancelling for me?

2. Player cannot get unfair advantage as casino gives player a bonus. Casino offering player a bonus and then accuse player in using the bonus? Where is the logic? I could freely use the bonus funds in any game. No bonus usage terms were violated and casino confirmed that. This was never mentioned by casino. What is the reason you put this information into the case?

3. In accordance to the rules when active bonus all my winning bets where credited to my bonus account. When wagering the bonus I could use any amount that available on my account. I used only amount of my bonus account (as my real cash was 0 in accordance to casino rules - I didn't have any other funds except bonus) strictly to the casino terms. They never mentioned I did something wrong. The total blackjack game result was a loss of 1525 USD - it's NOT correct to use term 'BJ winnings'

4. There is no any mentioning of 'card counting' as a fraudulent activity on casino's Terms and Conditions. Stating the casino correct of their decision to withhold the deposit and slot winnings is strictly against this site's philosophy. You don't consider 'card counting' as a fraud but you grant the casino right to steal the money under 'card counting accusations'. Very tricky position clearly shows you are prejudiced. 

5. This is against the facts and game history data. Majority, or rather to say 100% of winnings where slots winnings and bonus credited. No winnings where get from blackjack game. Yet again - all the winnings bets where credited to my bonus score. All the losing bets where logically lost. So in accordance to bonus score I only where winning (as only wins credited). So if consider only my winning bets that was credited then you can say I won. Yes I won a lot of BJ hands during the game but I lost a lot. And sum of by wins and losses is -1525 USD why you continue to call this a win?

No game history data provided here so I don't know what information you analyzed. Casino manipulating with facts providing false information in every message but you ignoring this. Decision of Casino Guru is not based on the facts and evidences and strictly against the facts and logic. Not only the slots winnings but my initial deposit of 8000 USD was seized as well and you never mentioned that. This is totally illogical unjustified decision not based on the case facts.

The logic here is simple - you took a bonus designed only for slots. You started to wager this bonus on BJ. When the casino told you to wager it on slots, you began to do so. However, when your balance dropped down, you started playing BJ again. Hence you got an unfair advantage because you used the bonus funds violating the bonus terms. We always recommend to casinos to enforce this rule by software, but you perfectly knew what you are doing in this case. You were informed that the bonus is only for slots. The majority of your winnings were from BJ. Logs confirm it.

You told us how things happened. However, this version is different from the casino's version. The casino backed up its version with logs and other supporting evidence. 

Therefore, in this case, we are on the side of the casino.

It has nothing to do with counting cards. 

If you disagree with our decision, you can contact the casino's licensing authority.

You personally accusing me in improperly used bonus funds. Casino never told this. Instead of being unbiased and operating with the facts you at certain point started to behave like vavada's lawyer. This happened after 2 weeks of dead silence from casino in public missing the deadline for answer 2 times. It looks like you have negotiations between you.

In my message above I presented bonus rules of vavada's T&C in full. Please specify what term exactly was violated. Player can operate only with data presented on a website I'm not a medium to guess what rules are not printed there. You should operate with the facts not with the fantasies. Please read bonus rules section of vavada T&C and say what term exactly was violated. Casino never said this bonus for slots only and never accuse in improperly used bonus funds. They said GAME CONTRIBUTION from live games is ZERO. Means I still can use bonus funds for any games but my bets will not be counted to bonus wager. That's it. The fact that when betting real money all my winning bets where credited to bonus account - not to real money account confirms that.

As for my BJ results. You either misguided with misrepresentation of games results or bribed. Otherwise I don't understand how one can call LOSS is a WIN. Probably they presented you only the part of game history or only bonus account was presented to you. What about my real cash account where I lost 8000 USD in BJ only? Do you have game provider data or only casino's side game history? Every player has unique ID in Evolution system so all my bets can be derived from game provider data. It s nonsense to say I won at blackjack.

Logically I put 8000 USD as a deposit and final state of my balance was 14077.81 USD. Let vavada specify in what games what results where achieved to see how the final balance formed. I repeat my data again:

Deposit + 8000 USD

Welcome bonus + 1000 USD

Slots Game + 6602.77 USD (there is a small amount of free-spins winnings included I don't remember the value)

Blackjack game -1525 USD

With a total of 14077.77 USD

And finally I don't understand why we discussing bonus rules violations and my BJ result as casino clearly stated 2 or 3 times that the initial point is Evolution report. They told me straight to READ CAREFULLY what is written at affgamblers. I read it carefully. It is stated I did opposite bets at blackjack that is nonsense. That the point you have to clarify from vavada. Please so do you as well - READ CAREFULLY!

Case started with Evolution report and card counting accusation resulted in 2 month in a statement that 'It has nothing to do with counting cards'. Are you really on a case?

If vavada accuse me in improperly used bonus funds they had to raise these accusations from the very beginning not mentioning Evolution. It looks really strange that after 2 month they with your help changed version of what happened for the 3rd time. How it turned to be bonus rules violation???

What is final accusations? Ask vavada to state it finally once again clearly here.

Web-sites like yours giving 'permission' to cheating casinos right to steal player's money never did this market civilized. They are laughing at you. Or you laughing at me having share of money stolen from me in your pocket. 

Yes, I don't agree with your decision as it is biased and prejudiced and not based on the facts and case fabula. I will certainly chaise casino via licensing authority and legal procedures.

Dear Ladygaga.

We are always trying to discover what actually happened and act based on that. So it takes us some time to check all the facts. 

What exactly happened:

You deposited $3000 and got a $1000 bonus. You played with this bonus BJ (which is OK in case you have a real-money in your account because these are used first. (as you wrote) You contacted support to ask about the bonus, and support told you the bonus is only for slots. Then when your balance went low, you deposited again $5000, and again you decided to play BJ most of the time and with much higher bets. Till this point, everything is fine. However, your balance went down below $1000.

From this point, your account contains no real money. And from this point, you should play slots. You for sure knew about it because you spoke before with support, and support told you this info. However, you chose to play BJ from this point, and here you breached the casino terms. By playing the BJ, you gained an unfair advantage, and because of that, the casino confiscated your winnings.

I don't know what happened with affgamblers, why the casino posted there the information about opposite betting - maybe human error. However, the team of people from the casino.guru was working on your case. $14k is a lot of money, and we are always trying to help when we can. But we received lots of supporting evidence from the casino which confirms that you wrongly used bonus money.

I am definitely recommending you submit a complaint to the casino licensing authority. We are working with evidence of what we have, and if you believe that the casino somehow tricked us - you can be sure they can't do it to the licensing authority.

However, we believe that the casino was correct when your winnings were confiscated.

Normally you have to provide exact term of vavada terms and conditions where this clearly stated and that was violated. Otherwise how can I 'KNOW' it? Also you can provide copy of chat transcript with the support where they warned me not to use bonus funds. I checked everything once again and can't see this restriction.

Also read carefully bonus rules of vavada. My real cash gone fairly before my balance reached below 1000 USD in accordance to their rules. As all winning bets were credited to bonus account thus converting all my real cash to bonus.

Casino never accused me in what you wrote above. You behave like a vavada lawyer not as ADR. Unfortunately.

For 2-3 month main accusation were 'card counting'. In this thread I'm talking only to you not to casino representative. You never asked them a single question in public and they never replied. This is not correct.

Not you but casino shall announce this accusations otherwise when I go through legal procedure they will say they never stated this. Looks really strange and biased from your side. Check first answer in this thread of vavada. What they are talking about. Check their answer on casinomeister. It seems you know better than vavada what happened. You are ignoring the facts.

This decision is complete discreditation of your service

As for 'human factor' is a very tricky position to keep this cheating casino on a 'premium list'. Vavada T&C vague unclear and incomplete giving casino unfair advantage over the players giving them right to steal the money at any time. You never win there not by any chance. If you feel this is premium service - let it be.

Check their answers:

'Hello! I suggest you to read what I've wrote to you on this source once again. On the website (affgamblers) where you've reported a complaint before, the provider've texted us by himself and told that you use the unallowed schemes. Card counting action was found unfair by the provider and that's was communicated to us.'

and also comment from Bryan (aka Casinomeister) in private:

'I just checked and you may have misunderstood us. It's not the casino that made this decision, but the software provider. So if anything - you would have a claim against them, not the casino. The casino management just upheld the decision made by the software provider. So if anything, you should take your issue up with them.'

So the the problem came from game provider - how it turned to be 'improperly using bonus funds' and 'human factor'?

Dear Ladygaga.

First of all, I am sorry that you feel that we are ignoring the facts. However, I don't think you can see this case from a neutral perspective.

I would like to mention that while for other websites where you posted your story, the case was closed only based on the evolution report about card counting - for us, this was not relevant.

We spent another two weeks asking for the details about this case, and only after we got the big picture of what happened, we published our decision.

Now the facts:

You stated that you wanted to play BJ, but you took a slots bonus.

Support explained to you that this bonus is only for slots.

You played BJ with that bonus.

You won from that bonus on BJ. (when only bonus funds were on your account and lower amount than initial bonus value)

From your game log is pretty obvious that you tried to wager the bonus on slots, but when your balance went low, you decided to again play BJ, and here you got an unfair advantage.

If we rule in your favour, it will mean that players don't need to follow the bonus terms and can play the bonuses on which games they like, which is obviously wrong.

So, I am sorry, but the casino had right in this case.

You can still contact the casino regulator, but I don't believe that the decision will be different for obvious reasons.

Because of all written above, we are rejecting this complaint.

We have reopened this complaint as per ladygaga's request.

According to her, the complaint was resolved and the casino has fully paid the amount.

I would like to ask the casino representative to confirm this.

Dear Matej,

Indeed, the complaint was re-examined by our casino and closed in favour of the player. For this reason, we've decided to pay the full amount indicated in the complaint.

Kind regards,

Vavada representative

Just want to add this case was resolved by mediation of SBGOK (FOUNDATION FOR REPRESENTATION OF VICTIMS OF ONLINE GAMING).

Dear ladygaga,

We are delighted to learn that your complaint has been successfully resolved, and we will update our system accordingly.