WinOui Casino - 플레이어의 계정이 차단되었고 그의 자금이 카지노에 의해 압수되었습니다.

Good afternoon

I have just been left feeling very angry and hurt by the activities this casino have behaved in treating me. They have been unethical , misleading and in my opinion behaved in fraudulent manner to take deposits from members knowing they don't have to pay them.

I should know better but upon registering I asked chat if my account was ok and legitimate so there would be no issues if i wanted to make a withdrawal. His name was John (if this is true) but he checked my account and said everything looks okay and no signs of illegal activity. I said great that's good to know as I mentioned in the above.

 It turns out though it was all lies and even though I registered and it accepted me from the UK . Since then strangely it won't let you register from the UK.

I deposited £2072.15 which to my surprise were deposit fees included in that. I can't believe how cold and calculated these people can be and that is the response I got from someone called Lydia on chat who just kept throwing 2.8 from the mass terms and conditions they have. 

When I asked how do you think I feel knowing the amount I have deposited I was never going to receive a penny from any possible winnings , her response was it's your fault and your responsibility, can I help you with anything else just to rub it in. 

They will let you make deposit after deposit knowing you should not be registered with them and that they can throw the terms and conditions at you if you try to make a withdrawal.

How can a company behave in this way. Again I say they are running in a way which is almost fraudulent because they are misleading people into making deposits and then saying it's all you fault when questioning there ethics.

In short they have taken over £2000 from me from deposits they should not have accepted and falsely gave me the impression it was okay to play at there casino.  

I don't know what you can do to help me but I hate seeing this happen and would hate for this to happen to anyone else. 

I will tell you a bit about myself as if you do get in contact with them I know they will probably mention this. As in my statement I will be honest with what I say.

I am a recovering gambling addict and have been clean for some time. Obviously the reason why I ended up at this casino was because gamstop prevents you from playing on UK casino sites. I used to gamble as a way of escaping or dealing with issues and this is the reason I was drawn in again.

I accepted originally that I'd gone too far ( like old habits) and that enough was enough I contacted them on chat to close my account because I explained my personal circumstances. I accepted my money was lost.

After a few days I contacted them because I wanted to be sure that even though I'd lost, I'd lost on the slots and not there practices.

And because of there unethical practices I am here to make this complaint. It is a separate issue from my gambling issues and so has nothing to do with that.

 It is about the conspiracy to defraud members.

Kind regards

Ashley

Dear Ashley,

Thank you for submitting your complaint. I am sorry to hear about your troubles. First of all, please allow me to ask you a few questions so I can fully understand this issue. Could you please confirm if you were using a VPN to access the casino? Did the casino block your account? Also, could you please forward to me the email or screenshots stating that the casino accepted your account details? Thank you so much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,Satrio

Hello Satrio 

I didn't even know what a VPN was until I googled it and no I was not using one.  I asked the casino to block my account regarding a separate issue due to the amount I had deposited.

I have emails of the deposits I made to the casino. I have tried to send all of them but I have have been unable to but instead have sent one of a deposit and one of registering.

If you need anymore information please let me know.

Regards

Ashley

Hi Ashley,

Could you please forward me those emails to: satrio.y@casino.guru

Many thanks,

Hello again Satrio

I have forwarded a few emails to you with a deposit and registration with them. 

It has come to my attention that since if you try to register an account with them the page blocks you because you are in the United Kingdom. This happens without entering any details so to speak.

I originally signed up without any problems.

Thank you for your help so far with this

Regard

Ashley

Dear Ashley,

Thank you for forwarding me the emails. I have contacted the casino regarding this case and hopefully, they will get back to us soon.

Regards, Satrio

Hello Satrio

Thank you for getting back to me. 

If the casino fails to respond back to you is there anything you can do? 

I also have bank statements with winoui casino on it showing all the transactions if you need this? I sent you email confirmations before of deposits made to them.

Regards

Ashley

Hello Satrio

I have noticed that the time to reply has been increased a few days and was wondering if you have had a response from them. 

What can you do if the casino fail to reply?

Kind regards

Ashley

Hi Ashley,

I have increased the time for the casino as they started to communicate with us and giving us any information regarding this case. I would like to ask you if you have ever passed the verification process in this casino? If yes, could you please send me a screenshot or an email stating that? Also, are you still able to access your casino account? Many thanks

Hello Satrio

With regards to verification I only remember verifying my account on an email link when registering my account. They did not ask me for passport , drivers license , statements or documents etc if this is what you meant.

My account has been disabled so I have no access to it.

What has there respose been if you don't mind me asking?

Regards

Ashley

I am Jean, the representative from Winoui Casino and I will exerce here our right to answer. 

We, by system, refused player from UK, not having a UKGC licence in our possession so far. You can try this by creating an account with UK VPN. You can't. So these players are using something either a pro-VPN or a paying proxy in order to bypass our security and that is clear to us as it is solely located on UK and they all have the same pattern. Register / Deposit / IF loose claim deposit / If win claim winnings. As I check, I can see registration IP is UK and that is a problem on our end that we are investigating. Nonetheless, someone not optimizing his browser / network in any way WILL NOT be able to register.

Second, the account was never KYC as there never was any withdrawal demand on Ashley s we KYC accounts upon WD request. The player is incapable of producing an email wherein we are stating that his account has been KYCed because it has never been. Would it be that it would be a compliant mistake from us, but again not a valid reason to claim lost deposits. 

Third, we NEVER cancelled any winnings on this player. Player starts playing on 7/11 and requested an account closure on the 11/11 after he/her obtain winnings on the night of the 10/11 to the 11/11 to an accumulated amount of about 1250 euros, place 2 withdrawals, one at 2212 (GMT+2) cancelled by player at 2245 (GMT+2), one placed early morning at 0640 (GMT+2) and cancelled at 0645 (GMT+2), again by player. We have sent attachment of the deposit/withdrawal pattern. We note the suspicious attempt from this player to reopen his account by live Chat with one of our agent. The Chat transcript has been forwarded as well. 

So it has to be made clear that we never cancelled any winnings on this account nor did we proceed to an early closure from our end. We closed the account upon player's request, for addiction reason and we refused obviously to re open it. We can produce all bet history if needed to show balance diminution down to 41,68 EUR, which is the remaining amount that was locked due to addiction closure request.

On our end, there is no case besides the bypass of registration blocking which we are investigating. 

I am no computer expert. I don't know what pro VPN is or paying proxy is. I was able to sign up without any problems and as you mentioned at the end of your first paragraph you had a problem your end that you are investigating. 

I to see the same pattern as well, customers signing up and making deposits the casino very well know they shouldn't be due to restrictions but they do nothing . It's amazing how thorough Jean is when responding to this in defense of the casino. It's a shame Winoui could not have been this thorough when I signed up and made over £2000 in deposits that should not have been accepted.

I have never said my account was KYC approved but I confirmed that my registration was accepted which I verified by email. I still have this.

I have never said or made any comment about my winnings being cancelled. I did make two attempts to withdraw winnings but never complained about this. Regardless of this it is irrelevant as the sole purpose of my claim is that I should not have been allowed to register an account with you and you accepted deposits you were not authorized to accept. 

Before I registered maybe Jean can look at chat transcript of a conversation I had with Jon about me explaining I was from the United Kingdom and that was it okay to open an account and make deposits as I wanted to make sure my account was valid. Jon assured me everything was okay and he could not see any issues with my account and my country of residence.

I attempted to reopen my account because i became aware I had been targeted by a bogus casino and wanted to access my history and deposit transactions etc. 

I also attempted to register again to see If they accepted United Kingdom players  and to my surprise I was unable to because this time they did not accept United Kingdom players. Why was I able to in the first place?

It makes me wonder if Jean has fully read my complaint as in the last paragraph again comments over cancelled winnings and closure of account was not there doings. I cancelled the winnings and I closed my account thankfully. Again the purpose of my claim has nothing to do with this.

Of course a casino like yours will try and just shut me down as you're used to bullying and manipulating situations because you always have the upper hand don't you. 

And as for bypassing your system this is just another pathetic excuse to blame someone else. 

From my end there is no case other than you return the unauthorized deposits you stole from me, and I say stole because that's what you did.

I'm not going to let this go until I receive a full refund and I'm going to keep seeking help and advice where I can because your running unethical practices and it's wrong.   

Thank you Ashley for finally being honest about your complaint, resumed very well here : "the sole purpose of my claim is that I should not have been allowed to register an account with you and you accepted deposits you were not authorized to accept." 

Reminder of the title of this complaint : "WinOui Casino - Player’s deposits have been confiscated by the casino." 

 > You played and lost those deposits, this claim is false and must be deleted @Casinoguru

Reminder of your introduction :"I have just been left feeling very angry and hurt by the activities this casino have behaved in treating me. They have been unethical , misleading and in my opinion behaved in fraudulent manner to take deposits from members knowing they don't have to pay them."

 > No unethical or misleading nor fraudulent activity has ever been or will ever be proven from your side. On our side we have shown that your claim is the one that is not ethical as you are diverting time and resources from legit entities trying to help player for you to be able to engage in risk free Casino activity. 

I've always been honest with my account of what has happened. It's a shame everyone that represents this casino does not have a drop of honesty in them and is never accountable or responsible for anything if it goes against them.

I'll be brief as you have been.

Chat said you accepted United Kingdom players .  THIS IS FALSE

Registration accepted me as a United kingdom player . You accepted you had an internal problem and were investigating it as this should not have happened.

All my deposits are void . Whether I won or lost money my deposits are void. If I won £5000 my deposits are void and I would not receive my winnings.

 How can you say I am being unethical and that I have no evidence. My registration and transactions i have are evidence which should have been refused.

I'm diverting time and resources from a legitimate entity. More like I'm an inconvenience to you because your used to just casting people aside hoping they just accept whats happened.

How can my claim be false . I'm from a restricted country you were not authorized to trade with and i won't delete this until you return my deposits back. This will be up to casino Guru either way with regards to the claim being removed.

@casinoguru : this is a non-dialogue and just theatrical posture from this person to not loose face on public forum. Please rule this case as after this post we will not feeding it anymore unless new elements are being presented. 

If we accept the deposit we always pay the winnings. You cannot prove that we dont pay winnings so you must stop claiming it. 

referring to : "If I won £5000 my deposits are void and I would not receive my winnings."

The ethics of gambling is that when a player place a wager  against the casino or another player,  both parties accept the risk of the outcome. 

You place bets and refuse to accept the loss and thus try by any mean to claim your deposit back.

THIS is what's  unethical here.

Once again you ignore the absolute basic principles and keep going on how you would pay winnings. You're not allowed to pay me winnings regardless as it's illegal. 

You let a United kingdom player register and make deposits without jurisdiction. Why is it United Kingdom players cannot play on your website now? Because you were not allowed to accept them in the first place.

It is these circumstances  I strongly believe due to these irregularities I would have sooner or later experienced this situation when trying to make a withdrawal,  as well potentially continuing to deposit into this casino.

Winoui casino cannot seem to understand that it has nothing to do about them paying winnings and the risks that players and the casino take on the outcome.

They mention the ethics of gambling and that I refuse to accept bets I lost and citing me unethical. They must refer back to my registration which they clearly state was a error and that I should not have been able to join there casino.

I ask you Casino Guru to show understanding in the position I have found myself in and concern of the money I have lost due to an error in there system.

Winoui are trying to use every excuse to throw my claim against me and remove this post but it must stay active. This is not just from the a moral principle but to protect myself and other players in future if this happens to them.

Hi Ashley,

We understand your concern, on the other hand, our team in Casino Guru has committed to be in the middle between casino and player to find a mutual agreement. As you mentioned in your post that the live chat confirmed that the casino accepts UK player, could you please pass me a screenshot or a proof to support your claims?

Regards,

Hi Satrio

I know you have to take an unbiased view and treat each side fairly.

I don't have a screenshot. All I know is that I was talking to someone called Jon and the casino would have this in there transcript but I doubt they will share this with you.

I have proof by email I successfully opened an account and made deposits as a UK player. They even admit they had a technical error on there system under investigation. Is this not sufficient evidence to back my claim?

I have been exposed to this before this is why I am strongly fighting my case.  At another casino I made a withdrawal and they refused to pay me and only returned my last deposit. They kept all deposits before that because It turned out I had closed an account at one of the dozens of casinos they were running.How is that right to keep all my previous deposits if they did not pay my winnings?

I am adamant I would experience a similar scenario again myself with Winoui casino.

Regard

Ashley

Hello Ashley and WinOui Casino.

We conducted an in-depth investigation and we can say this:

1. We tried the casino’s blocking system multiple times and we were unable to register from many restricted countries (UK included).

We do not know how Ashley might have been able to register, but we see that the casino is very responsible and takes restrictions very seriously.

2. Ashley was able to deposit and played from a restricted country, but in this case, he gained an advantage of being able to play. The casino didn't cheat him in any way and gave him a fair chance to win in every game.

To make a ruling, we used our fair gambling codex:

https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#restricted-countries

Specifically:

"The right thing to do is to check for restricted countries during the account creation process, and to not allow players from restricted countries to register and play. If the casino knows about restricted countries and also knows the player's country of residence, it's not a big issue to enforce this rule."

"If the casino allows a player from a restricted country to play because it hasn't implemented this check, it should accept that it was the casino's mistake and pay out all winnings to the player despite the fact that they shouldn't have been allowed to play in the first place, provided that the player hasn't done anything else that's against the rules."

From our point of view, Ashley lost the money fairly and has no right for a refund.

3. Because Ashley is from a restricted country, his remaining balance should be returned, and account closed forever.

Ashley, we are very sorry. We can imagine how you feel, but please understand that even though the casino made a mistake of accepting you, they didn’t trick you in any way. From all the communication with the casino, it is clear that in case you won, they would pay you out in full.

We also advise the casino to improve their processes to avoid making the same mistake of accepting players from restricted countries in the future.