Joya Casino - 플레이어는 약관 위반으로 인해 출금 문제에 직면합니다.

I have been a member of Joya for a while now. Recently, after accepting a deposit match bonus, I wagered the required amount as confirmed by live chat. I then played Live Blackjack and worked my way up from €4000-odd to €8000-odd.

After requesting a withdrawal, I was surprised this morning to receive an email stating that they were only prepared to pay me €1000 out of €8000. They cited two infringements:

1) I played a game (Sugar Rush) which has a Bonus Buy feature. Note that I did *not* buy the feature. I was just playing a slot which happens to have such a feature.

2) I played live games (Live Blackjack) after the bonus wagering had been completed (something one would assume the casino would surely appreciate as they gain more of an edge from the player).

To me, both these terms seem unusually harsh and irregular even if they are covered by the website T&Cs.

Hello dsp99RF,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Joya Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account is already verified and if yes, since when exactly? How much is your current balance on your casino account? Can you please forward a screenshot of the bonus and it's terms you used? When was the last time you spoke to the casino and what was it about?

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Hi Nick and thank you for trying to help me.

I joined the casino on 13 Feb 2024. I have checked all my email history and cannot find any request for ID. When I go to the "My account" section of the website, it says:

==============================================

Identity

It is NOT obligatory But upon request for your withdrawal Payout, ID-Verification is required, to avoid delays on your withdrawals payouts, please ID verify on time

Verified Stage 1: No

==============================================

My current balance is zero. After all my wagering, my balance was around €8000 and because I was only allowed to withdraw €1000 at a time, I withdrew the €1000 with the intention of withdrawing the remaining balance (more or less) in instalments of €1000. Joya sent me the €1000 but then wiped the remaining balance to zero.

The bonus came in the form of an email (see text below), of which I can provide a screenshot of if necessary:

==============================================

Hey there,

I’ve got something special for you!  Enjoy a 90% bonus on all providers.

Just deposit and play your favorite games with an extra boost on us!

Thanks for being an awesome VIP at Joya Casino. If you need anything, I’m just a message away!

Happy gaming!

Skye

==============================================

It might be worth noting that although not necessarily intended by the casino, I was lulled into a false sense of security by this offer because it refers to enjoying all my favorite games without a disclaimer stating that some games were disallowed. There was also no link to the bonus terms page.

The most recent communication was when I claimed not to have used a bonus buy feature and the casino replying by saying that it is not necessary to buy a feature to contravene the terms, only to play a game with such a feature.

I have attached a transcript of all the emails, but I am unsure if it is shown. If not, let me know I will send them to your email address.

In addition to the above, I notice that the aforementioned rule regarding not playing bonus feature games appears to have suddenly vanished from the bonus terms page.

Furthermore, according to archive.org, the two rules I was said to have breached have only been implemented within the last two months or possibly sooner (as archive.org only has a limited range of archived pages). I never received an email or pop up message on the site stating that these very important terms had been added.

Hello dsp99RF,

How much exactly did you deposit to get the bonus? Is there any specific link directly to that bonus? How is it possible that they even paid out 1000€ if you did breach any of the terms?

I have just checked and the payment was via crypto, so both the initial deposit and withdrawal were approximately $1000.

There was no link to the bonus offer. It was an email which stated:

===============

Hey there,

I’ve got something special for you!  Enjoy a 90% bonus on all providers.

Just deposit and play your favorite games with an extra boost on us!

Thanks for being an awesome VIP at Joya Casino. If you need anything, I’m just a message away!

Happy gaming!

Skye

===============

They paid me the $1000 as a "goodwill gesture" according to their email.

Dear dsp99RF,

I hope you're doing well. Upon reviewing your case, it appears that the casino has refunded your initial deposit. However, based on the details provided, they have also confiscated your bonus winnings due to playing restricted games. Ideally, the casino should have safeguards in place to prevent players from accessing such games.

To ensure your complaint is handled appropriately, I will be forwarding your case to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru), who will be assisting you moving forward.

Thank you for your patience.

Best regards,

Nick

Hello, dsp99RF,

I am sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. I will contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Now I would like to invite the casino representative to join this conversation and participate in resolving this complaint.

Dear Joya Casino team,

Could you please explain the player's situation in more detail? Why exactly have the user's winnings been confiscated?

If we are talking about a breach of the casino's Terms and Conditions, is the casino able to substantiate its claims and decision with relevant evidence?

Feel free to send the necessary details and supporting evidence to my email address (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Hello dear Daniel and Branislav,

Hope you are well and safe.

After thoroughly reviewing the player's account, I’ve identified a clear breach of our Terms and Conditions. Specifically, Term 5.4 states: "Bonus terms and conditions apply regardless of whether wagering requirements are fulfilled. Live games and progressive slots are excluded from bonus play eligibility." This means that games like Blackjack are not permitted with this type of bonus, even if the wagering requirements have been met.

Given this breach of our rules, we are unfortunately unable to proceed with the requested withdrawal.

Thank you for your understanding.

Best regards,

Joya Casino

Thank you for your response, Joya Casino team. However, it did not clarify the situation at all.

Can you provide us with the following:

• What was the balance at the time the user met the wagering requirements + was his balance cleared of everything over the maximum cashout upon meeting the wagering requirements or conversion/moving of the winnings to a real money (withdrawable) balance
• Information on whether he played BlackJack (a restricted game) only after meeting the wagering requirements
• Why should the casino apply bonus rules to winnings/funds after meeting wagering requirements if those funds are considered real money (withdrawalable balance)? What are players supposed to do if they want to continue playing with such funds/winnings, and how they are informed about it?
• The user's complete game logs with bonuses visible in the data

Feel free to send the necessary details and supporting evidence to my email address (branislav.b@casino.guru).

Hello Branislav,

Thank you for getting back to us.

I will provide you with all the information that you requested on your email.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Joya Casino

Thank you for your email and additional information, Joya Casino.

Can you please look at my email regarding the matter sent a while ago and answer my questions/provide the requested?

Thank you.

Hello Branislav,

I will check the email and will provide you with all the answers.

Thanks in advance.

Joya Team

Hello, Joya Team,

Thank you for the additional information and details.

Feel free to check our external communication outside the thread and provide the requested answers and details.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Dear Branislav,

Thank you for your thoughtful insights and suggestions. I’d like to address each of your points and provide additional clarity on the specific case at hand.

Firstly, regarding the accessibility of bonus-playable games, we’re actively working on an update that will soon allow players to clearly see which games are restricted from bonus play (including Progressive and Bonus Buy games) directly on our site. This will make it easier for players to understand the eligibility of games in connection with bonus play and wagering requirements. For standard welcome bonuses, Progressive and Bonus Buy games are indeed fully restricted. However, during certain exclusive or internal promotional campaigns, these restrictions may not be enforced in real time, as these promotions are structured to provide players with enhanced deposit boosts and greater winning opportunities. In these cases, players are informed of the relevant bonus terms directly via our website or customer chat and acknowledge them when they accept the bonus, affirming their understanding of the rules and restrictions.

Regarding our internal policy, it’s also essential to clarify the rule we apply following the fulfillment of wagering requirements. For us, this rule is a necessary part of ensuring fair play and consistency, allowing us to protect both the casino's interests and players’ gaming experiences. This player, as a VIP, has a longstanding familiarity with the games and bonus terms, as well as the rules of our platform. When there is a breach, as occurred here, our standard approach is to refund the player’s deposit, allowing them to either withdraw the refunded balance immediately or continue playing with full clarity on the bonus rules.

We continuously aim to improve our platform and our approach to customer care. Several enhancements are underway on our website to streamline the player experience and provide clearer information. We truly value fairness as a foundational principle, and this commitment drives us to uphold our terms consistently across cases. Although we acknowledge that some players may find certain restrictions unsatisfactory, we believe the established rules are fair and necessary.

Finally, we greatly appreciate your feedback on potential improvements, including additional notifications or pop-ups, and will carefully consider your recommendations. Your suggestions are valuable to us and align with our commitment to continuous improvement.

Thank you once again for your understanding, and please feel free to reach out if there are further points to discuss.

Best regards,

Casino Representative

Joya Casino

Thank you for your response and additional information, Joya Casino team.

Unfortunately, my questions posted here at the end of September have not been answered sufficiently until now.

It is highly appreciated if the casino is trying to make it more fair and simple for players, however, it basically does not change the complainant's situation, and that it happened to him with the casino's current system settings, restrictions, and rules that make no sense.

Therefore, our position explained in detail via email/Skype remains unchanged, and if there is nothing important or essential that could change it, we recommend the casino to restore the user's winnings that were confiscated and/or let him withdraw them in case the casino decides to close his account. Under all the given circumstances, we cannot accept the winnings confiscation. The allegedly applied rule even makes no sense here.

Thank you. Looking forward to hearing from you about the casino's decision or for additional supporting evidence confirming the player won a jackpot in the Progressive Jackpot slot in question or accumulated significant amounts by Bonus Buy features.

Hi Branislav,

I hope you’re doing well.

Thank you for sharing your concerns with us in detail via email and Skype. We appreciate your dedication to fair play and transparency, and we’d like to reiterate our commitment to upholding these values at Joya Casino.

Regarding this particular case, we have thoroughly reviewed the player’s activity and the circumstances surrounding the bonus terms. As explained previously, the player is ineligible for a payout due to a breach of our terms, which prohibit playing certain types of games—including live games and Progressive Jackpot slots—while a bonus is active. This rule is clearly outlined and has been in place from the start to protect both the integrity of our promotions and the interests of our player community.

We understand your point about bonus terms visibility. Our bonus rules are readily accessible and designed to inform players clearly, even if there isn’t a specific pop-up reminder during gameplay. We are, however, open to continuously improving our system to enhance clarity and are actively considering ways to make this even more transparent.

In terms of fairness, we have returned more than the player’s initial deposit, demonstrating our commitment to maintaining a balanced and respectful relationship with all our players. While we are always open to feedback, these terms are essential for the sustainability and fairness of our bonus structure, allowing us to offer attractive promotions responsibly.

Thank you again for your ongoing partnership and for sharing your perspective. We hope this clarifies our position and reassures you of our intent to be as fair and transparent as possible within the boundaries of our rules.

Best regards,

Joya Casino Team

Dear Joya Casino team,

Can you please be more specific regarding an unfair advantage the player gained by playing the Progressive Jackpot Slot with an active bonus?

Are we talking about a bonus with a maximum cashout amount or about a sticky bonus? If so, can you provide us with specific rules valid for the bonus in question and the information on where can we find them or how the player was informed about them? Was any part of the winnings accumulated with an active bonus considered invalid for any reason but still a part of the user's balance after the bonus wagering requirements were met? Or, were the winnings completely "clear" and considered real money (withdrawable balance) after the wagering requirements were met, so the user could have withdrawn them in full?

Thank you.

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

Hello Branislav,

I've sent you the private message with the whole explanation about this case.

Once you read it please let us know.

Thanks in advance.

Joya Casino Team

Dear Joya Casino team,

Thank you for your response and further details provided outside the thread.

Waiting for the casino's final decision regarding the matter or further supporting evidence for the things I asked for.

Thank you. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Hello Branislav,

Could you please check DM where I sent you all the info regarding this case.

Thank you in advance.

Joya Casino Team

Hello,

Checked and replied. Waiting for your final decision regarding the matter.

Thank you.

Hey Branislav,

Tomorrow I will let you know about the decision.

Thank you for understanding.

Joya Casino Team

Dear Joya Casino team,

Unfortunately, we have not received your final decision yet.

As was explained outside the thread, we insist on paying the player's disputed winnings in full if the casino cannot prove an unfair advantage gained by playing a restricted slot game with an active bonus. The rest (playing a live game after the wagering requirements were met) makes no sense, and therefore, we consider it irrelevant to the case or as a possible reason for the confiscation of winnings.

Please provide us with the casino's final decision.

Thank you.

Hello dsp99RF,

Hope you are well and safe.

Could you please check your email and provide us with the update and the feedback regarding this matter?

Thank you in advance.

Joya Casino Team

Thank you for your email and the update, dsp99RF.

Dear Joya Casino Team,

The complainant replied to the casino's offer via email.

Can you please inform us about your final decision regarding the matter, proceed accordingly, and let us know once it has been done/processed?

Then, after the player's confirmation, we can finally close the case.

Thank you. Looking forward to hearing from you.