Stake Casino - 플레이어의 베팅 전략이 지켜지지 않아 상당한 손실이 발생했습니다.

I am writing this because stake.com live chat support team is refusing to answer my questions and take responsibility of a loss that occured due to stake's program. My username in stake is LuckyGuy097, I was betting in dice and have experienced a serious problem where the betting strategy and conditions I set were not followed, my bet strategy included the conditions of "reset bet amout upon win" and "increase bet amout by 210% upon loss", after a big win, I had 175k dollars in the balance, I wanted to stop autobet but could not. Furthermore, the biggest issue was that it kept gambling without following the strategy and the conditions i have set, it did not reset the bet amout to the initial one (which was 0.5 dollars, and did not increase the bet amout by 210%, it just kept gambling huge amouts until i did not had enough balance to perform the bet, this problem with stake led to significant financial loss. Despite providing the relevant bet IDs and details, my issue remains unresolved, I have not received a satisfactory response, they only said that this occured due to connection issues and that there is no responsibility on their end, without providing any evidence whatsoever, which does not make any sense since there were no problems with my connections, and the bets should follow the conditions i set on the stake's program, but instead, it just kept gambling without following any pattern and without any input from me. I asked for more information, evidence and to speak with the "team" that did the investigation that they were talking about. However, they stopped answering me entirely.

Informations needed to check the Issue:

Date/Time of Incident: 2024-09-07T23:32:01.746Z

(for the past few days, 08-10 september 2024, I contacted the support team, provifing all the informations they required)

Bet IDs related:

data/idd

house:272213582154

house:272213584561

house:272213587215

house:272213589262

house:272213598586

house:272213600999

house:272213607994

house:272213610352

house:272213612736

house:272213615397

house:272213617813

house:272213619977

house:272213622184

house:272213624647

house:272213627019

house:272213629406

house:272213631776

house:272213634192

house:272213642032

house:272213646861

house:272213650605

house:272213652305

house:272213664943

house:272213672325

id

47a277c8-9f33-434e-b83c-b1687a92db1b

1dc13c79-315c-47dd-8a3b-c29bc5272e67

82110df7-ac8b-47ba-ba7b-761ee8210e9b

c99d7482-c258-43b3-8a8e-c9df1989d83e

f4b1bd6e-fe9d-43e0-852c-a79934042748

eed56a74-978c-4979-a7f6-9839921320e3

1de6ce87-93a9-4c6d-a233-58caf9e69a71

7a5256b8-a391-49ec-a330-3097f1577d31

f5fcb24e-9272-4fb2-8332-938805d972bb

a759694c-5112-4a4e-8402-5bec00ec6028

75e618a4-25b1-4615-8771-d80ba19ae364

633b2bb4-68db-4d25-9afa-ae62dc3a27ae

eb24ea51-2f8d-41fd-9275-89ac42b63b4e

db5c85d1-7a74-4b3c-9cdd-3898c9a93d2f

02d17ace-2f1a-4d3d-8e3a-7ee25b77cf54

6baa1b29-aff6-47bd-b9f7-58f5e69db921

54784f3b-e069-44b0-a62e-324cb1440799

5b7a5caf-f98e-4bc0-bf4e-154fd8145f50

43da6120-2746-4964-9f39-6d759b30d719

79556026-60b0-4cea-833d-0feb9f94e6f0

dd725c3b-fd68-4d5b-b588-76e952faed4d

df8018d8-548c-41de-9083-99102022f92f

f1c996df-dd91-4e90-8018-6de4ae50f8f8

6cf93b30-d598-40b7-b060-7ea9bbde7e1d

Conditions Set:

1. Starting bet amout, 0.5.

2. On every win, reset bet amout.

3. On every loss, increase bet amout by 210%.

4. On every win, Switch over under

5. On every loss, Switch over under

below 34 or over 66 (result needed for win)

Amount Lost because the bets did not follow the conditions: $140,000

The strategy was not executed as specified, and I have evidence showing that the conditions were ignored by the system. I have already provided this evidence, including screenshots and logs, but I have not received any proper resolution or even an acknowledgment of the issue from the live chat team of stake.com, right now, they are refusing the reply to me while we were discussing the issue.

If needed, i can provide all the chat log and other informations about the bets that were being done.

Request for stake (which the live chat is not answering to):

A detailed explanation of why the strategy was not followed.

A full audit of the affected bets.

A clear response on how you intend to address this issue, including any potential compensation.

I would appreciate your urgent attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

User ID on Stake: 4115d245-7631-4f28-ae29-67c2ee625111

Username on stake: LuckyGuy097

Dear LuckyGuy0139,

Thank you very much for submitting this complaint. I'm sorry to hear about your problem. Could you please forward any supporting evidence, such as screenshots or videos along with any relevant communication to veronika.l@casino.guru? Would you be unable to stop the auto spin feature even if you closed the game? Have you tried contacting customer support immediately after discovering technical problems with setting your gameplay?

You included an Excel spreadsheet in your complaint. Did you receive this file from the casino?

I hope we will be able to help you resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards

Veronika

I sent you an email with a video recording and also a written text of the chat log (I contacted them immediately after I noticed the issue and received the bet logs to confirm that the bets where not following the conditions in the strategy I set - the bet logs are given by stake), where they checked the bet ids and confirmed that the bets were NOT following the conditions and strategy I set, and also the fact that autobet was keep betting without any pattern whatsoever until i did not have enough money for the bet. However, they just framed it as an "connection issue" from my end, refusing to take any responsibility and also refusing to provide any evidence, they were only making claims and not properly answering to my text.

I've also included the emails, since they were not replying on the chat (after I asked for evidence and a explaination for what happened, how the system works), i asked on email for further assistance and for evidences backing their claim, as there are many cases online, also on trustpilot about issues with stake's platform and website, where they just claimed for it to be a "connection error" by the user and stopped answering. After contacting them on email, they ended up repeating the same thing about it being not their problem, and stopped replying.

Hey, what would be you guys' assessment on this issue. From seeing how I lost 2.78946823 BTC because the bets were not following the conditions in the strategy I set, to how they were avoiding my text and questions, refusing to provide any explanation and evidence for their claims, then stop answering me completely (both in live chat and after i contacted them in email), it is clear that they do not want to take responsibility of my loss of over 160k United States Dollars (it was 140k+ before, which is 2.78946823BTC, but bitcoin increased in price) due to stake not executing the conditions I have set for my bets.

Thank you for your email. Do you have any videos of your gameplay showing that the strategy you set was not working and that the auto spin feature was impossible to stop?

No, however, I sent you the bet archive, which shows the bets I made, by checking the IDs the strategy I used can be seen, and it can also be seen that the bets did not follow the conditions I set in my strategy. Stake checked the bet ids already and said that the bets were not following the strategy I set, also, there are times when auto bet does not stop. However, as I've said, they just framed it as a "connection issue" from my end, refusing to take any responsibility and also refusing to provide any evidence, they were only making claims and not properly answering my text.

Thank you very much, LuckyGuy0193, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Michal (michal.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Thank you for willing to help, let me know.

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

I'm Michal, and I have taken over this complaint. I have reviewed this case, I will contact the casino to shed more light on this matter. I do have a question, why have you just not stopped completely when you noticed the bets were placed not in the way you would like? Were you unable to stop the dice game at all?

I would like to invite Stake Casino to join the conversation.

Dear Stake Casino,

I would appreciate it if you could share any insights from the game provider regarding a potential game glitch. A player has reported that the autopay feature could not be halted, and the bets were placed in a manner that was not expected. Additionally, please forward me the player's full game log at michal.k@casino.guru

The bets where happening extremely quickly, I could not even see them occurring on the screen and had to refer back to the bet log to see what happened. Furthermore, clicking "Stop Autobet" did not work.

Dear Michal,

We have sent you an email with all the details regarding this case.

Kind regards,

Dear Stake Casino,

Thank you for your email, I have replied with some additional questions and am awaiting your response.

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

So far I've been informed by the casino team that they have thoroughly investigated your gameplay and according to the game logs stored on their servers, the servers operated normally within the designated time period. There were no additional complaints or issues reported by other customers, which would have indicated a problem on their part. The auto-bet configurations are solely managed by the customer, necessitating that the customer's device determines the outcome of the game as a win or loss, and subsequently applies the calculations related to the customer's auto-bet settings for the following wager. The management of auto-bet settings is not conducted by their servers or databases; it is entirely reliant on the customer's device.

Could you kindly confirm the device you utilized, including its make, model, and software specifications? Were you operating a VPN, streaming service, live TV, listening to music, or any comparable program that might influence your internet connection speed at that time? Did you access the casino's website directly through a browser, or did you use an application or casino software? Furthermore, since you have already reached out to the casino's licensing authority, have they issued their decision yet?

I have asked multiple time for further explanation and evidence for the case, and have received no response, I have reached out to Curacao eGaming, where stake should have a licence from them. However, I received an automatic response from them saying that the casino is not licensed from them. Furthermore, I also sent a complaint to complaints.casinoreviews.com, asked about the licensing and they have said that "this is a weakly licensed operator. If the operator fails to respond to us there no viable alternative available to you.". "Unfortunately a lack of recourse if complaints arise is one of the risks associated with playing with weakly licensed or unlicensed gambling operators. These operators choose not to engage with more robust regulatory systems so that they are not subject to oversight.".

I asked them "So if they decide to create fraudulent systems to take users' money deposited in their online casino, there is nothing they can do?"

The response was: "We are not asserting that is the case here. However, and as has been clearly detailed a number of times now, where a gambling operator operates offshore and holds a weak license, there is little to no oversight and few viable avenues players can pursue if things go wrong. The operator is the final decision maker when it comes to how disputes are managed in these cases.

We encourage players to engage with robustly regulated and legally reachable operators specifically because we want them to have some recourse if things go wrong."

If needed, I can send you the chat. Also, there are many other cases online where users would experience problems with the system and stake claims it as "connection error", without providing any evidences, explanation, and the license providers does not reply to the problems that were faced.

The device I used is a MSI laptop, system model: GE66 Raider 11UG, operating on windows 11, 32 RAM, 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-11800H, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Laptop GPU. I was not using a VPN, no streaming devices are being used, no comparable program being used. I accessed the casino’s website through google chrome at https://stake.com/casino/games/dice.

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

I'm not quite sure what further clarification you require. As has been communicated to you multiple times, the casino IT team has reviewed all their server logs and there was no issue detected on their side which suggests the cause of this was very likely on your side. It’s important to emphasize that during that period, no other players reported similar problems as you did, which would be anticipated if there were a widespread issue on the casino's end.

Furthermore, I would like to put to your attention these rules in the casino's terms and conditions:

5. YOUR WARRANTIES

Others

x) The telecommunications networks and Internet access services required for you to access and use the Service are entirely beyond the control of Stake and Stake shall have no liability whatsoever for any outages, slowness, capacity constraints or other deficiencies affecting the same;

6. STAKE WARRANTIES

6.2 The software is provided "as is" without any warranties, conditions, undertakings or representations, express or implied, statutory or otherwise. Stake hereby excludes all implied terms, representations, conditions and warranties (including any of merchantability, merchantable quality, satisfactory quality and fitness for any particular purpose). Stake does not warrant that: (i) the Website and Services will meet Your requirements; (ii) the Website and Services will not infringe any third party’s intellectual property rights; (iii) the operation of the Website and Services will be error-free or uninterrupted; (iv) any defects in the Website and Services will be corrected; or (v) the Website or the servers are virus-free.

I have reached out to the casino team for additional information, but I am uncertain if this will influence the final decision. I recognize that this may not meet your expectations; however, based on the information and evidence we have collected, we have not identified any errors on the part of the casino.

You mentioned you contacted Curaçao eGaming, however, the casino, to my knowledge, has a Curaçao / Antillephone license. If you believe you want to take your complaint further, feel free to contact Curaçao Antillephone N.V. (ANT) at complaints@gaminglicences.com and certria@gaminglicences.com

Thank you for your response. However, I did not had any connection errors, and it is unreasonable that connection error could cause the website to gamble randomly without following the strategy that I have set, increase the gambling amout and only stop when there isn't enough balance to keep gambling.

Not deploying my predefined betting strategy should not result in random bet variations. Logically, if no betting strategy can be identified, if a rebet is going to occur at all it should be at the value of the last known bet.

I have asked for evidences or explainations of why this may occur. However, they simply answered with something similar to: "connection error, check for vpns and check that your device is updated", without answering any of my questions.

No other players provided similar problems as I did does not mean that stake did not rig the bets that I was doing or that there was specific issues that affected my end; there are many other cases were this occured to other users and led to a loss of significant amounts. Evidence of how mere connection error could cause the bets to go like that is required.

I have sent an email to complaints@gaminglicences.com on the 10th of September and received no response.

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

Could you kindly provide evidence that the casino system did not adhere to the established strategy you are asserting? How can you demonstrate that it was not your decision to allow the game to proceed, resulting in your loss of funds? Do you possess any photographs, videos, or other documentation that would indicate you were unable to cancel the auto bets or that you intended to place the bets differently? If so, please send them to me at michal.k@casino.guru. While I am eager to assist, it is important to understand that without any supporting evidence from your end, it becomes quite challenging for us to contest the casino's position. I must reiterate that the information and evidence we have received from the casino do not indicate any problems on their part. Additionally, could you please confirm whether you are utilizing a VPN? If not, how are you accessing the stake site, and how did you manage to open your account? I was unable to do so from an Italian IP address.

From the bet IDs the casino can check the strategy the bets were following, Stake support team have confirmed that in the chat that I have sent you, where i specifically asked the question.I was not using any vpns, after an account on stake has been created, you can access it from Italy without any vpns.

What information and evidence did you receive from the casino?

the only evidence that I have received so far are claims, they are not evidences

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

I anticipate a response in the complaint thread from the Stake team shortly. Although I would like to share more detailed information and evidence with you it is not possible at this stage as it appears that your claim might be unfounded.

As I mentioned above how can you show that the decision to allow the game to continue was not made by you, which led to your financial loss? Do you have any photographs, videos, or other forms of documentation that could prove you were unable to cancel the automatic bets or that your intention was to place the bets in a different manner? If you do, please share them with me. It is important to note that, in the absence of supporting evidence from your side, it becomes nearly impossible for us to challenge the casino's stance.

There is a lack of evidence from stake’s side as for why the bets did not follow the conditions I have set, all they have said was basically "connection error", connection error should not cause the bets to increase in amount in a random pattern, if there isn’t a betting strategy registered it should bet in the same amount set initially. I was not recoding when doing the bets as I did not expect this to occur. However, the support team clearly said in our chat that with the bet IDs, he can check the strategy being used and whether the strategy was followed, and it was not being followed during the bets I’ve reported.

Almost All people do not record when making bets, recordings should not be the only evidence that gets accepted. The bets were done by autobet and were not following the strategy I have set, I contacted stake and felt powerless because they could simply not answer my questions, say that it is an "connection error" and stop replying. They can do that when it comes to almost most problems concerned with their platform, they claim it to be a connection error, not give any explanation after taking the money from the user of the platform, the license provider does not even care to give an reply to these kinds of problems, allowing stake to simply take people’s money when they want, with fraudulent systems working to their favour (that bets people’s money without following the strategy the user have set), claim it as an connection error from the user, and face no responsibility.

The bets did not follow the conditions I set, that was seen by the stake support team, so they should be the ones giving a explanation as for why, and also evidences of why the price increased during autobet, how can connection error lead to a pattern of bets completely different to the strategy I have set.

Dear Michal and LuckyGuy0193, 

As previously communicated, our tech team has confirmed that the issue did not originate from our end, as our servers were operating correctly during the specified time frame. Auto-bet settings are entirely managed on the customer’s device, meaning the customer's system processes the outcome of each game, applies the mathematics behind the Auto-bet settings, and continues accordingly. 

Furthermore, we would like to highlight that when a player enables the strategy feature, a pop-up notification is displayed, clearly stating that this function is intended for experienced players and requires the user to acknowledge full responsibility for any associated risks.

Additionally, we have verified that during your aforementioned gameplay, the user manually stopped the auto-bet feature on several occasions. Each instance shows that the auto-bet was deliberately halted and later restarted by the complainant.

We appreciate your understanding. 

Kind regards, 

"These tools are for experienced players looking to run advanced strategies. Continue at your own risk." does not mean that the bets I set do not follow the conditions I set. "customer's system processes the outcome of each game, applies the mathematics behind the Auto-bet settings, and continues accordingly.", How does that explain why connection error caused the bets to follow a random pattern, increase in a random pattern? increased to an amout suddently to more than 40k usd (into bitcoin at the time) and keep gambling, if there isn’t a betting strategy registered it should bet in the same amount set initially.

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

While I genuinely wish to help, it seems that you are somehow intentionally overlooking some important points made by the casino team.

I must reiterate the casino team's mentions.

The Auto-bet settings are entirely managed on the customer’s device, meaning the customer's system processes the outcome of each game, applies the mathematics behind the Auto-bet settings, and continues accordingly. 

This means the auto best are placed not by the casino system, but are calculated in your device.

Additionally, we have verified that during the aforementioned gameplay, the user manually stopped the auto-bet feature on several occasions. Each instance shows that the auto-bet was deliberately halted and later restarted by the complainant.

This seems to be not in line with your previous claim that the autopay feature could not be halted. I understand that no player places bets to incur losses, I must ask how you can demonstrate that you are not merely seeking to recover funds that have been previously lost?

Although it was not denied that there could have been internet connection errors/disruptions that could potentially affected the disputed placed bets, however, almost everything indicates that these disruptions originated on your end; therefore, the casino cannot be held accountable for this. 

You mentioned that the losing bets did not follow the "strategy" you set and that you were unable to disable the auto-bet feature. However, the casino team asserts that the servers functioned correctly during the relevant period and that you had indeed deactivated the auto-bet feature on multiple occasions. Each of these instances indicates that the auto-bet was intentionally stopped and subsequently restarted by you. Furthermore, no other players have reported experiencing similar issues during that specific timeframe, which would be anticipated if there were a problem on the casino's side at that time.

It is important to note that, in the absence of supporting evidence from your side, it becomes nearly impossible for us to challenge the casino's stance.

I recognize that this response may not align with your expectations, but given your ongoing refusal to accept certain facts, I'm afraid we come to a point where I cannot provide you with any further assistance.

You are of course free to disagree with all that has been mentioned here, however, I regret to inform you that I cannot side with you in this instance, and the only potential recourse of action for you remains to pursue your case with the licensing authority.

Please inform me of any other aspects or details that I may have missed, which could provide a different perspective on the situation. I will try to address them. If not, I will move forward with the closing of your complaint.

"customer's system processes the outcome of each game, applies the mathematics behind the Auto-bet settings, and continues accordingly.", How does that explain why connection error caused the bets to follow a random pattern, increase in a random pattern? increased to an amout suddently to more than 40k usd (into bitcoin at the time) and keep gambling, if there isn’t a betting strategy registered it should bet in the same amount set initially.

How does my device even calculate the bets? I inserted the strategy and the bet amout, how does my device and connection calculate in a way that is completely different than the strategy and execute the bets?

Furthemore, just because I did manage to stop the autobet before, it does not mean that at that time the auto bet couldn't get stopped. This issue happened immediately after I had a big win where I profited a lot and my balance was up to 170k bitcoin in usd at the time, after that, the bets started NOT following the strategy i have set, this can be verified through the bet IDs, the pattern in those bets, the strategies being used in those bets and what happened. By viewing the bet log I sent at the start, it is clear that immediately after I had a great win, the bets started to not follow the strategy I have set and there was a completely different pattern in the bets. Isnt that suspicious? After i had a bet which profited me more than 60k USD, autobet could not be stopped, and there was a "connection error" on my end that caused system to not register my strategy, which made my account bet in a completely different way than the strategy i have set-

How does "almost everything indicates that these disruptions originated on your end; therefore, the casino cannot be held accountable for this.", all the casino gave was claims, I am not "merely seeking to recover funds that have been previously lost" because there was a clear error, my bets did not follow the betting strategy i have set, which caused the loss.

I gave the bet IDs, chat log with the casino where the fact that the bet did not follow the strategy I have set on the stake application has been seen and confirmed. The casino refusing the respond, provide any explanation, and the license provider also does not answer any messages. Then the casino can just give some claims saying "There are no problems on our servers at the time", "no one else reported any issues", so avoid any consequences whatsoever. That makes it extremely easy for Stake to simply create fraudulent systems, mess with their betting strategies to take their money, and then claim it to be a connection error from the user and stop responding. (that is what happened to me). The licensors also do not bother to respond to any complaints, as reported by many users online and also in Trustpilot.

As I said, isn't it suspicious, as soon as I had a big win of more than 60k (in BTC at the time), the "connection issue" occurred and the bets were not following my strategy.

The bets were not following my strategy has been reviewed by stake and confirmed by the support team, so there is no excuses to that from stake's end except for it being not their problem.

Now i cannot even contact their license provider as they do not reply.

No not close the complaint, first of all, the license provider is not responding (what should i do about that?), second, the questions i have asked were not responded by stake, all they said were claims.

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

I appreciate your determination to find any possible ways to support your claims. However, it is important to understand that without credible evidence from your end, we will not be in a position to challenge the casino. I empathize with your frustration of losing such a substantial amount in a brief timeframe, but our capacity to assist you in this situation is extremely limited.

How does that explain why connection error caused the bets to follow a random pattern, increase in a random pattern? increased to an amout suddently to more than 40k usd (into bitcoin at the time) and keep gambling, if there isn’t a betting strategy registered it should bet in the same amount set initially.

How can you demonstrate that it was not you who let the auto bet gameplay in this manner? You previously halted the auto bets and restarted them again, why have you not changed the "strategy" when you didn't want the auto bets to be placed that way before?

Furthemore, just because I did manage to stop the autobet before, it does not mean that at that time the auto bet couldn't get stopped. This issue happened immediately after I had a big win where I profited a lot and my balance was up to 170k bitcoin in usd at the time, after that, the bets started NOT following the strategy i have set, this can be verified through the bet IDs, the pattern in those bets, the strategies being used in those bets and what happened. By viewing the bet log I sent at the start, it is clear that immediately after I had a great win, the bets started to not follow the strategy I have set and there was a completely different pattern in the bets. Isnt that suspicious?

Again, how can you demonstrate that it was not you who set up the auto bet feature in this way or let the auto bet gameplay in this manner when you halted the auto bet and later reset it? Do you have the full game log (not only the disputed bets) for that day? If so please forward it to me at michal.k@casino.guru

I have received confirmation from the casino team that you stopped the auto best. "The autobet feature was manually stopped on multiple occasions, particularly after the following bets: house:272213589262, house:272213634192, and house:272213652305. Each occurrence indicates that the user deliberately paused the autobet and subsequently resumed it." As I mentioned before, I fully understand that no player places bets to incur losses, however, you need to understand that without any evidence from your side, we are not able to challenge the casino.

I have sought additional clarification from the casino team regarding specific matters; however, it seems that the only remaining course of action is for you to address your complaint with the licensing authority.

I think there is a misunderstanding here, you asked me

"How can you demonstrate that it was not you who let the auto bet gameplay in this manner? You previously halted the auto bets and restarted them again, why have you not changed the "strategy" when you didn't want the auto bets to be placed that way before?"

"how can you demonstrate that it was not you who set up the auto bet feature in this way or let the auto bet gameplay in this manner when you halted the auto bet and later reset it? "

However, as i already told you multiple times, the strategy i set had different conditions than how the game plaid out, with the bet ids, the strategies can be checked, and seen by the technical support team and confirmed, i sent the full chat to Veronica before she switched with you, also pictures of the betting strategy and conditions being used, and the log of how the bets played out. It is weird for you to ask me the question "how can you demonstrate that it was not you who set up the auto bet feature in this way or let the auto bet gameplay in this manner when you halted the auto bet and later reset it?" after i have explained it multiple times, sent the bet logs and also the chat log with stake, where they confirmed that they checked the bets and the strategy being used.

I will send you the full game log and the strategy I was using for the bets, also the chat with the stake support team in case you haven't seen that. It is really strange that you asked me "why have you not changed the "strategy" when you didn't want the auto bets to be placed that way before?" because it does show that you have not read my messages properly, as i said multiple times, the bets were following the strategy until that moment.

Immediately after I had a great win, the bets started to not follow the strategy I have set and there was a completely different pattern in the bets. Isnt that suspicious?

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

I appreciate your determination to find any possible ways to support your claims. I have once again examined the evidence you submitted and apart from what appears to be arguing with the livechat agents and constantly repeating certain questions you have already either received an answer to or an explanation as to why they cannot provide you with specific answers you seem to keep disregarding their answers. I do understand you were seeking clear answers, but livechat agents have only limited availability to all information.

It seems that you have your entire game history and more screenshots, please forward this to me as well. It might shed more light on the situation.

I have reviewed your game log for the whole day ( I must say it is a bit confusing and certain entries really do not make much sense) as you sent it to me, and I noticed a few things.

I have hidden the surplus columns and left only the "important ones". I will endeavor to offer a straightforward explanation; however, please be aware that this may not completely reflect the actual situation, and there may still be elements that require further clarification.

So you started on that day here...

As can be seen, the strategy was not set as you mentioned

Conditions Set:

1. Starting bet amout, 0.5.

2. On every win, reset bet amout.

3. On every loss, increase bet amout by 210%.

4. On every win, Switch over under

5. On every loss, Switch over under

below 34 or over 66 (result needed for win)

Actually, it appears you have set the following strategy:

1. Starting bet amount, 0.000015BTC (cca 0.80 USD)

2. On every win, reset the bet amount. I'm not entirely sure about this, this reset appears to be to a certain percentage of your current balance or the win sum because sometimes the bets were the same sometimes different, see below

3. On every loss, increase the bet amount by 310%. (not 210% as you mentioned)

4. On every win, Switch over under

5. On every loss, Switch over under

below 34 or over 66

So since this time

It appears you have used the same strategy basically all the time through your gameplay that day. You have won with his strategy a few big bets, but as it's quite common in the martingale or a similar strategy, you can win big, but you can as well lose big quite quickly.

According to you on every win, the bet amount should be reset to the original/first bet amount (0.000015BTC (cca 0.80 USD), but this had not occurred basically through the whole day, yet you have not complained about this.

Going forward to the disputed bets. Before the bets, "your" auto bet strategy has been placing "basic" bets in the amount of 0.00085529BTC (cca 46 USD)

If the strategy was not placing bets as you set it, why have you let it go up until the bet 272213589262?

Moving forward, you later stopped the auto bet 272213589262 and from here the strategy was changed (most likely by you) and it looks like the "basic" bets were set in the amount of 0.0026514 BTC (cca 143 USD)

You then stopped the bets 272213634192 and 272213652305.

On or after the bet 272213652305 the strategy was changed again (most likely by you) and it looks like the auto bet placed bets in the amount of 0.75907325 BTC (cca 41008 USD), it was at this time where the significant loss occurred. The auto bet then most likely automatically stopped when your balance dropped below a certain amount. Anyway, the gameplay continued after a couple of seconds in the same or very similar fashion, which I find a bit strange, but it is of course on the player when and how they play.

I hope this provides you with a better understanding of the situation. Please feel free to let me know if I overlooked something or if you have any other questions, I will try to answer them.

First of all, i appreciate that this time you have spent time to actually check for the issue. The starting bet for that autobet cycle was 0.5usd at that time, it shows 0.8 at the start, then different values as initial price, but as for the bet cycle where th problem occured, the initial price was 0.5usd, and it did reset bet amout upon every win, as you can see from the screenshot i sent you:

if you can, please check the statistics carefully, especially when the problem occured, the strategy was being followed completely, but after i had a big win (betting more than 40k and winning), the bet pattern changed and started betting in a different way, at that time I did not change my strategy at all. As i already told you multiple times, I did contact the stake support team, and they confirmed that they can check for the strategy i was using by looking at the bet ids, and they did not comment about the strategy and the conditions i have set, because the bets indeed did NOT follow the conditions I have set, which really makes it weird for you to ask "how can you demonstrate that it was not you who set up the auto bet feature in this way or let the auto bet gameplay in this manner when you halted the auto bet and later reset it?"

"On or after the bet 272213652305 the strategy was changed again (most likely by you) and it looks like the auto bet placed bets in the amount of 0.75907325 BTC (cca 41008 USD)" I did not change the strategy at all.

All stake have said is that it might have occured because of a "connection issue". As I said multiple times, it does not make sense, it is a loss of over 2.7 bitcoin because my bets did not follow the strategy I have set, and they can dismiss all the problems by saying that it is a "connection issue from my end", their license provider does not even reply, which makes it extremely easy for them to just create fraudulent systems to scam people - as users are powerless against that.

The issue happened right after i had a big win, think about it please, right after i won tens of thousands of dollars, a "connection issue" happened, my bets changed in pattern. Isn't that suspicious?

Dear LuckyGuy0193,

I once again appreciate your determination to find any possible ways to support your claims, however, you seem to intentionally overlook some important points I have raised.

Let me respond to you about this:

"if you can, please check the statistics carefully, especially when the problem occured, the strategy was being followed completely, but after i had a big win (betting more than 40k and winning), the bet pattern changed and started betting in a different way, at that time I did not change my strategy at all. As i already told you multiple times,..."

As I have demonstrated your initial strategy (placing 0.5USD after a win) was NOT set all the time, you have changed the "basic" bet size a couple of times. The "basic" bets were sometimes different than your mentioned 0.5 USD.

Just a few examples:

Then later stage , if I'm not mistaken you indeed set the strategy that after a win the basic best will be reset to 0.5USD as you mentioned. This first occurred in bet ID 272206633562 and it was followed until the bet ID 272213469711. This was the last bet in the amount 0.5USD. After this bet, the "basic" bet amount of 0.5 USD was not used again. Subsequently, you placed several bets before asserting that an error had taken place, with a mix of losses and wins documented during this timeframe. It is noteworthy that you did not express any concerns about these bets or indicate the use of the auto-bet feature during that period. Anyway, the important fact you seem to ignore is, that before the disputed bets, you have set a different strategy. As I have demonstrated already, before the disputed bets, "your" auto bet strategy has been placing "basic" bets in the amount of 0.00085529BTC (cca 46 USD) after a win. This strategy was not set by the game or the casino system. It must have been set by you.

You still have not adequately responded to the point that If the strategy was not placing bets as you set it, why have you let it go up until the bet 272213589262?

Moving forward, you later stopped the auto bet 272213589262, and from here the strategy was changed ( again most likely by you) and it looks like the "basic" bets were set in the amount of 0.0026514 BTC (cca 143 USD)

You then stopped the bets 272213634192 and 272213652305. And again the strategy of placing bets has changed, so my question still remains: "how can you demonstrate that it was not you who set up the auto bet feature in this way or let the auto bet gameplay in this manner when you halted the auto bet and later reset it?"

Additionally, I have been notified by the casino team that you indeed accessed the casino via a VPN at that time, which might have contributed to a possible "connection issue from your end". That's why the live chat support has indicated this, and they are unable to offer additional insights because they do not have access to that information.

In addition, the casino team mentioned:

"I would like to emphasize that we lack visibility into the specific auto-bet settings utilized by the user. This is because our servers and databases do not manage auto-bet configurations; they are solely controlled by the user’s device."

So again, the way the best are placed is solely controlled by you on your device.

With all this being said, it's quite common in the martingale or a similar strategy, you can win big, but you can also lose big quite quickly. which seems to have happened here.

Taking all this into consideration and from all the information and evidence I was able to gather I have not identified an error on the casino side, instead, it indicated that the losses incurred were a result of the strategy you chose to employ.

I understand that this response may not meet your expectations, Unfortunately, I'm afraid there is nothing that can be done from our side.

First of all, I did not say that it was following the same strategy all the time, the start price did vary. However, during that bet cycle, where I had a big win and then huge losses, I did not modify the strategy and did not stop the strategy.

"You still have not adequately responded to the point that If the strategy was not placing bets as you set it, why have you let it go up until the bet 272213589262?"

please read my messages carefully as I have replied to that multiple times, the bets were following my strategy, during that bet cycle, the bets were following my strategy, I did not stop autobet, but then after the big win, the bets stopped following the strategy and started occurring at a extremely fast rate, which I couldn’t stop. (I did mention that before, read the chat please)

"so my question still remains: "how can you demonstrate that it was not you who set up the auto bet feature in this way or let the auto bet gameplay in this manner when you halted the auto bet and later reset it?""

As I have told you, I sent the chat with the support team, they claimed that they checked the bets and that with the bet ID, they can check the strategy being used, including the initial price, and they did not mention anything about the fact that the strategy I said was different, they replied with connection error, why is that then?

if they can check the strategy being used, when the bet are stopped (they told me they can) why have they not denied my claims and said that the bets were stopped. Instead, all they have said was "the bets did not follow the strategy because of connection error"

so it is clear that the bets did not follow the conditions I have set. You basically are trying to deny something that the Stake technical support team has already confirmed.

As I said, it really makes it easy for stake for simply create fraudulent sisters to scam its users, as the users are powerless, the license provider does not even reply and care.

Dear LuckyGuy0139,

I am starting to feel that our ongoing discussions regarding this issue are becoming less productive. While I agree with you that ideally, the casino team could have provided more clarity into the situation, but you still seem to intentionally overlook the points I have raised.

I try one more attempt in the hope you will finally understand;

please read my messages carefully as I have replied to that multiple times, the bets were following my strategy, during that bet cycle, the bets were following my strategy, I did not stop autobet, but then after the big win, the bets stopped following the strategy and started occurring at a extremely fast rate, which I couldn’t stop. (I did mention that before, read the chat please)

Please read carefully my previous post, particularly this part.

I have reviewed the discussions you had with the support team, but it seems that there was a significant amount of disagreement in those exchanges. Please understand that they generally look into the logs on their servers for any inconsistencies but these were not proven at this time.

Here is the response from the casino team again (hopefully you will not overlook it this time):

"I would like to emphasize that we lack visibility into the specific auto-bet settings utilized by the user. This is because our servers and databases do not manage auto-bet configurations; they are solely controlled by the user’s device."

to your mention:

As I have told you, I sent the chat with the support team, they claimed that they checked the bets and that with the bet ID, they can check the strategy being used, including the initial price, and they did not mention anything about the fact that the strategy I said was different, they replied with connection error, why is that then?

Again, please understand that it was proven that you indeed accessed the casino via a VPN at that time, which might have contributed to a possible "connection issue from your end". That's why the live chat support has indicated this, and they are unable to offer additional insights because they do not have access to that information. I must reiterate again that the way the best are placed is solely controlled by you on your device, thus any strategy that is used is understood to be employed by you.

While it may not be to your liking, it remains a fact that cannot be overlooked. So far you have not proven in any way that it was not you who set the strategy. Please refer back to your game log and see for yourself how and which bets have been placed at that time.

The exchanges we have had to date have not yielded significant advancement, as you continue to reiterate the same arguments and you overlook the points I have raised. It appears we have reached a stage in our conversation where I find it challenging to see the value in further discussion, as it seems you are primarily focused on your own perspective and I will be forced to proceed in closing your complaint as rejected.

You are, of course, welcome to seek further legal advice or continue pursuing your case with the relevant authorities if you wish. However, we are unable to take your case any further on our end, as it does seem that you are just merely seeking to recover funds that have been previously lost by the strategy you chose to employ.

"please understand that it was proven that you indeed accessed the casino via a VPN at that time, which might have contributed to a possible "connection issue from your end". That's why the live chat support has indicated this"

They did not "prove" I was using a VPN, as I was not using any VPN. Furthermore, they reply with "connection error" to everyone, many people have said that in trust-pilot about this.

It seems that you believe Stake's claims, although they did not provide any explaination, evidence and clarity about the situation - to your claim:

"they are unable to offer additional insights because they do not have access to that information."

the support team literally said that they are able to check the strategy being used (employed by me and registered in their program) and weather the bets were following the strategy i have set. So for you to say "they are unable to offer additional insights because they do not have access to that information.", means that the support team was lying when chatting to me, or that they have changed their claims.

please check the full chat i had with the support team.

Also, why is their license provider not replying? if their license provider does not even reply nor care for any complaints and problems, can't stake just create fraudulent systems and scam some of their users to maximise profits?

before closing the chat, can you at least clarify the situation and tell me, or ask Stake about how to get in contact with the license provider?

Dear LuckyGuy0139,

Although I genuinely wanted to help you, I must repeat again that you have not proven at all that the disputed bets were NOT placed by you. Please understand that your statement of the strategy was not like I have set it is NOT a valid proof with which we can confront the casino team.

I will try to address your questions the final time.

They did not "prove" I was using a VPN, as I was not using any VPN. Furthermore, they reply with "connection error" to everyone, many people have said that in trust-pilot about this.

We have received evidence from the casino that you indeed accessed the casino via a VPN (or have used an IP masking software) at that time, which might have contributed to a possible "connection issue from your end".

the support team literally said that they are able to check the strategy being used (employed by me and registered in their program) and weather the bets were following the strategy i have set. So for you to say "they are unable to offer additional insights because they do not have access to that information.", means that the support team was lying when chatting to me, or that they have changed their claims.

You once again (most likely intentionally) overlooked the rationale behind this answer. I have not said that the (security or IT) team cannot check this information, instead, I was referring to the livechat support team. They rely on the information they can see in their system.

I once again repeat that the way the best are placed is solely controlled by you on your device, thus any strategy that is used is understood to be employed by you. As has been communicated to you multiple times, the casino IT team has reviewed all their server logs and there was no issue detected on their side.

While it may not be to your liking, it remains a fact that cannot be overlooked. So far you have not proven in any way that it was not you who set the strategy. Please refer back to your game log and see for yourself how and which bets have been placed at that time. It’s also important to emphasize that during that period, no other players reported similar problems as you did, which would be anticipated if there were a widespread issue on the casino's end.

I empathize with your frustration of losing such a substantial amount and I understand you are trying to find any possible way to support your arguments, however, as I have mentioned multiple times, without any valid, reasonable evidence that the casino system had an issue or error, we cannot confront the casino.

Also, why is their license provider not replying? if their license provider does not even reply nor care for any complaints and problems, can't stake just create fraudulent systems and scam some of their users to maximise profits?

We have absolutely no authority to question the License provider on how they approach player complaints and how they respond to player inquiries. I can only advise you to regularly reach out to them for an update. We cannot help at all with this.

Please let me know how the Licensing authority has decided on your case at michal.k@casino.guru. We will adjust the classification of this complaint accordingly.

Regrettably, after thoroughly reviewing all relevant information and evidence, we must decline this complaint as it lacks sufficient evidence to demonstrate any wrongdoing on the part of the casino.

I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future and we will try our best to help.

Best regards,

Michal

Casino Guru