Twin Casino - 플레이어가 보너스 조건 모순에 대해 이의를 제기하고 있습니다.

I've already filed a complaint on the Complaint Portal. However, I haven't managed to resolve it yet. There was an attempt to contact me by phone, but I was at work at the time. It's been more than 2 business days and I still haven't received a response.

I filed a complaint with the following text: "Twin promises a 100% bonus (up to €300) on the first deposit for the online casino. Before depositing, I carefully read the terms and conditions and Twin is not complying with what's stated.

Twin says in the terms and conditions that the deposit and the bonus will be used as a balance, applied from the bonus account balance. In other words, I now have a €600 bonus account balance. The terms and conditions also state the following:

"It is important to note that the reset of the bonus account balance will result in the loss of any bonus value received during the campaign and any progress made in meeting the bonus betting requirements."

When trying to give up the bonus, Twin is claiming that I will lose all my deposited money. I don't even care about the bonus. I just want to preserve my deposit. However, in the sentence it is said that it will result in the loss of any bonus value, well, my bonus value was €300 and not €600. 

I am filing a complaint because I've exchanged dozens of emails with help@twin.com and it seems like I'm talking to a very unintelligent robot. 

I consider this to be a scam. Because a person deposits their money and it's not safe, even when following what's in the bonus terms and conditions."

In my free time, I also took the liberty of analyzing meticulously the provided terms and conditions, and identified various inconsistencies that need to be addressed:

1. In point 1.4, the first reference to the concept of deposited amount and bonus amount is made, reinforced later in point 1.5. However, at the end of point 1, examples based on deposited amounts are presented, where a "bonus account amount" is mentioned, defined as the sum of the amount from the bonus and the amount deposited.

2. In point 1.5, there's a clear distinction between the bonus amount and the deposited amount, indicating a difference between the two. However, this distinction becomes unclear in later points, which can confuse the user.

3. In point 2.2, a distinction is again made between the bonus amount and the deposited amount, with examples that clearly differentiate them.

4. In point 2.6, the concept of bonus account balance and main account balance is introduced, something new that was previously only mentioned in terms of amounts and not balances. However, it is not clear if the bonus account balance is the sum of the amount from the bonus and the amount deposited.

5. In point 2.7, it is stated that "Bonus money is used up until the bonus account goes below 0.20 €". This suggests that the bonus money refers to the money generated by the bonus itself, not the concept of bonus account balance. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to use the term "balance of the bonus account" in this context, given the lack of clarity in the terms.

6. In point 3.1, it's explained that when giving up participation in the campaign, the bonus account balance is reset, resulting in the loss of any value of the bonus received.

7. What is stated in point 3.1 contradicts the concepts previously introduced, by using the concept of the value of the bonus received, and thus distinguishing between bonus amounts and deposits.

Given these discrepancies, I demand that Twin proceed to the return of my deposit amount. I double down on my complaint to reinforce the need for a response from Twin

Já reclamei no Portal da Queixa. Mas ainda não consegui resolver. Houve uma tentativa de contacto telefónico, mas eu estava em horário de trabalho. Passaram já mais 2 dias úteis e não tenho nenhuma resposta.

Abri a queixa com o seguinte texto: "A Twin promete um bónus de 100% (até 300€) no primeiro depósito para o casino online. Antes de depositar li com cuidado os termos e condições e a Twin não está a cumprir com o registado.

A Twin diz nos termos e condições que o depósito e o bónus serão usados como um saldo, aplicado de saldo da conta bónus. Ou seja passei a ter 600€ de saldo de conta bónus. Nos termos e condições também diz o seguinte:

"É importante notar que a reposição do saldo da conta de bónus resultará na perda de qualquer valor de bónus recebido durante a campanha e qualquer progresso feito no cumprimento dos requisitos de apostas de bónus."

Ao tentar desistir do bónus, a Twin está a alegar que vou perder todo o meu dinheiro depositado. Eu nem quero saber do bónus. Só quero preservar o meu depósito. Porém, na frase é dito resultará na perda de qualquer valor bónus, ora o meu valor bónus foi de 300€ e não 600€. 

Estou a apresentar queixa pois troquei uma dezena de e-mails com a help@twin.com e parece que estou a falar com um robô muito pouco inteligente. 

Considero que isto seja um burla. Pois uma pessoa deposita o seu dinheiro e este não está seguro, mesmo seguindo o que está nos termos e condições do bónus."

Com o tempo livre também tomei liberdade de analisar minuciosamente os termos e condições fornecidos, e identificar as diversas inconsistências que precisam ser abordadas:

1. No ponto 1.4, é feita a primeira referência ao conceito montante depositado e montante do bónus, reforçada posteriormente no ponto 1.5. No entanto, no final do ponto 1, são apresentados exemplos baseados nos montantes depositados, onde é mencionado um "montante da conta bónus", definido como a soma do montante proveniente do bónus e do montante depositado.

2. No ponto 1.5, há uma clara distinção entre o montante do bónus e o montante depositado, indicando uma diferença entre os dois. No entanto, essa distinção deixa de ser evidente em pontos posteriores, o que pode confundir o utilizador.

3. No ponto 2.2, é feita novamente uma distinção entre o montante do bónus e o montante depositado, com exemplos que os diferenciam claramente.

4. No ponto 2.6, é introduzido o conceito de saldo da conta bónus e saldo da conta principal, algo novo que antes só era mencionado em termos de montantes e não de saldos. No entanto, não fica claro se o saldo da conta bónus é a soma do montante proveniente do bónus e do montante depositado.

5. No ponto 2.7, é declarado que "o dinheiro do Bónus é utilizado até que a conta de bónus desça abaixo de 0.20€". Isto sugere que o dinheiro do bónus se refere ao dinheiro gerado pelo próprio bónus, não ao conceito de saldo da conta bónus. Talvez fosse mais apropriado utilizar o termo "saldo da conta bónus" neste contexto, dada a falta de clareza nos termos.

6. No ponto 3.1, é explicado que ao desistir da participação na campanha, ocorre a reposição do saldo da conta de bónus, resultando na perda de qualquer valor de bónus recebido.

7. O exposto no ponto 3.1 contradiz os conceitos previamente introduzidos, ao utilizar o conceito do valor do bónus recebido, e desta forma distinguir entre o montantes do bónus e do depósito.

Diante destas discrepâncias, exijo que a Twin proceda à devolução do meu valor de depósito. Duplico a minha queixa para reforçar uma necessidade de resposta da parte da Twin

Dear JMaranha,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Unfortunately, many casinos consider both the bonus amount and the deposit used to activate the offer as one bonus balance. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. 

• Do I understand correctly that you want to cancel the bonus and play with your deposit?
• Could you please clarify why you activated a bonus if you didn't want to play with it?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Kristina

My intention was always to play with the bonus amount and try to unlock the bonus. The main problem here is that the last point of their terms and conditions mentions that if you cancel the bonus, the deposit amount is returned to the player's balance. After I failed to unblock the bonus, meaning I consumed the bonus amount, I went to give up, and a message saying I was going to have nearly 0€ balance in my account appeared. I contacted help, and they said I would lose my deposit amount by giving up the bonus. That is not what is mentioned in the terms and conditions of the bonus. Their terms and conditions are very confusing and have mixed concepts before point 3. Yet point 3 it's very clear. I have played another bonus in other houses. They give the money and limit the withdrawal. In this house, the process seems different. You receive everything in a balance called bonus balance. So I made sure that my amount deposit was safe by reading the terms and conditions. Turns out they are trying to "suck" the amount deposit.

Thank you very much for your reply, JMaranha. Could you please forward all the relevant communication between you and the casino to kristina.s@casino.guru? Alternatively, you can post it here. Thank you in advance.

Email sent

Do I understand correctly based on this email exchange that you have already started playing with the bonus? Could you please clarify how much money you currently have in your casino balance? And what about the wagering requirements - how much is there left to wager?

Let's address the questions:

Q: Is it correct to assume from our email exchange that you've already begun using the bonus?

A: Yes, I have utilized the bonus. As a new player at the casino, I carefully reviewed the terms and conditions to understand the bonus terms. Point 3 suggested that I could forfeit the bonus while retaining the deposit amount, so I opted for the bonus. However, this detail wasn't explicitly stated in the terms, leading to confusion. My previous experience with 888 Casino led me to believe that the outcome at Twin Casino would be similar. I first wagered the bonus amount and, upon forfeiture, retained the deposit amount.

Q2: Could you clarify your current balance in the casino?

A2: Currently, it's around €2. The bonus had a 15-day play window. Within the first two days, I played, unlocking only 13% of the bonus conditions (30x the deposited value). Realizing the conditions were unattainable, I decided to forfeit, resulting in a balance of only €2. Subsequently, I reached out for assistance and refrained from further play.

Q3: How much of the wagering requirements remain?

A3: The bonus has been closed, leaving €15,660 in wagering requirements. The excessive requirement makes it nearly impossible to unlock the bonus, leading me to label it as deceptive. Instead of safeguarding the deposit amount, the casino intends to deplete it with these unreasonably high wagering requirements.

I had to open another complaint via Portal da Queixa due to their lack of communication. This was effective. They called and claimed to be unaware of my wait for their call, which I find dubious. I've diligently followed up on Portal da Queixa with daily complaints about their lack of communication.

During our phone conversation (last Tuesday) they merely reiterated vague points from their terms and conditions without engaging in substantive dialogue. I maintained my stance, insisting on a review of their terms and conditions for clarity. I demanded the return of my deposit. Their response was to await further communication after consulting their legal team. I expressed skepticism regarding their claim of contacting the legal department, as a genuine response would involve a coherent argument based on logic. I'm now awaiting their next call.

They responded to my complaint by denying it:

"Good morning Mr. João

Based on our experts' analysis, the points mentioned above specify that when you withdraw from the promotion, the amount transferred to the bonus will be lost.

Unfortunately, there is no way to reverse this situation since you have already played part of the Bonus.

Yours sincerely,

Twin Team."

I replied the following:

"What experts? Nobody contacted me. Where is this analysis? Nothing was shared. The only analysis done here was by me and shared. Lack of clear transparency. As in your terms and conditions. I do not accept the decision. I will proceed through legal means. If anyone who understands anything would like to contact me by phone, I am available."

I need your help more than ever to solve this

They replied to my complain by denying it:

"Bom dia Sr. João

Parente análise dos nossos especialistas, os pontos acima mencionados especificam que ao desistir da promoção o montante transferido para bónus será perdido. 

Infelizmente não tem como reverter esta situação sendo que o senhor já jogou parte do Bónus.

Atenciosamente,

Equipa Twin."

I replied the following:

"Que especialistas? Ninguém entrou em contacto comigo. Onde está essa análise? Nada foi partilhado. A única análise aqui feita foi por mim e partilhada. Falta de transparência clara. Tal como nos vossos termos e condições. Não aceito a decisão. Vou avançar por meio legais. Caso alguém que perceba de alguma coisa queria entrar em contacto telefónico comigo, estou disponível"

I need your help more than ever to resolve this

I understand that these terms may appear tricky or unjust to you, but this is typically how bonuses work in most casinos. When you trigger a bonus along with a deposit, they merge into a single bonus balance, and all bonus rules are applied to the total amount (bonus + deposit). Normally, the deposit funds are utilized first, and if you opt to cancel the bonus, the entire balance is canceled.

I apologize, but this is a widely practiced method in casinos and we do not perceive it as unfair. Furthermore, if you actually started playing with the bonus, I am afraid there is not much we can do at this point.

Please, let me know if there is anything else I can help you with, or if I have overlooked something, otherwise I will be forced to close this complaint. Thank you very much for your understanding.

Kristina,

I hope this message finds you well. I want to express my sincere appreciation for any assistance you can provide, especially given the complexity of the issue. While I understand your expertise may not directly relate to the legal realm, I believe that ensuring justice and fairness is a concern for everyone.

As an engineer, logic and clarity are fundamental to my approach to problem-solving. Before accepting the bonus, I carefully reviewed the terms and conditions provided by Twin. While terms such as Deposited Amount (Concept Account Balance) remained ambiguous.

Twin's point 3, "Participation in the campaign and bonus fraud," particularly caught my attention. It suggests that withdrawing from participation replaces Concept A and results in the loss of Concept Y. However, the exact nature of Concept A remains unclear. Through logical deduction, I speculated that Twin may have equated Concept Z with Concept A, albeit using different terminology. If indeed A=Z, then withdrawing Z would imply replacing it and losing Y, ultimately returning to the deposited amount (X), which should be safe to withdraw.

Despite my efforts to clarify these discrepancies within Twin's terms and conditions:

"1. In point 1.4, the first reference is made to the concept of deposited amount and bonus amount, reinforced later in point 1.5. However, at the end of point 1, examples are presented based on deposited amounts, where an "amount" is mentioned bonus account", defined as the sum of the amount coming from the bonus and the amount deposited.

2. In point 1.5, there is a clear distinction between the bonus amount and the deposited amount, indicating a difference between the two. However, this distinction is no longer evident at later points, which can confuse the user.

3. In point 2.2, a distinction is made again between the bonus amount and the deposited amount, with examples that clearly differentiate them.

4. In point 2.6, the concept of bonus account balance and main account balance is introduced, something new that was previously only mentioned in terms of amounts and not balances. However, it is not clear whether the bonus account balance is the sum of the bonus amount and the deposited amount.

5. In point 2.7, it is stated that "Bonus money is used until the bonus account drops below €0.20". This suggests that bonus money refers to the money generated by the bonus itself, not the concept of the bonus account balance. It would perhaps be more appropriate to use the term "bonus account balance" in this context, given the lack of clarity in the terms.

6. In point 3.1, it is explained that when withdrawing from participation in the campaign, the bonus account balance will be reset, resulting in the loss of any bonus amount received.

7. The above in point 3.1 contradicts the concepts previously introduced, by using the concept of the value of the bonus received, and thus distinguishing between the amount of the bonus and the deposit."

A resolution remains elusive. Your guidance and support in navigating this matter would be greatly appreciated.

By assisting me in this matter, you'll not only be aiding an individual in need but also standing against injustice and misconduct. My aim isn't merely about the monetary value involved, although it does represent a significant portion of the minimum wage in Portugal. It's about upholding principles of fairness and accountability, principles that resonate with your organization's mission.

As Casino Guru rightfully states, intervening when players are treated unfairly is essential. By shedding light on instances of non-compliance and dishonesty, we contribute to a fairer and more transparent gaming industry.

I sincerely thank you for considering my request and remain hopeful for a positive resolution.

Warm regards

Kristina,

I hope this message finds you well. I want to express my sincere appreciation for any assistance you can provide, especially given the complexity of the issue. While I understand your expertise may not directly relate to the legal realm, I believe that ensuring justice and fairness is a concern for everyone.

As an engineer, logic and clarity are fundamental to my approach to problem-solving. Before accepting the bonus, I carefully reviewed the terms and conditions provided by Twin. While terms such as Deposited Amount (Concept X), Bonus Amount (Concept Y), and Bonus Account Amount (Concept Z, where Z=X+Y) were clear, definitions of Concept A (Bonus Account Balance) and Concept B (Main Account Balance) remained ambiguous.

Twin's point 3, "Participation in the campaign and bonus fraud," particularly caught my attention. It suggests that withdrawing from participation replaces Concept A and results in the loss of Concept Y. However, the exact nature of Concept A remains unclear. Through logical deduction, I speculated that Twin may have equated Concept Z with Concept A, albeit using different terminology. If indeed A=Z, then withdrawing Z would imply replacing it and losing Y, ultimately returning to the deposited amount (X), which should be safe to withdraw.

Despite my efforts to clarify these discrepancies within Twin's terms and conditions:

"1. No ponto 1.4, é feita a primeira referência ao conceito montante depositado e montante do bónus, reforçada posteriormente no ponto 1.5. No entanto, no final do ponto 1, são apresentados exemplos baseados nos montantes depositados, onde é mencionado um "montante da conta bónus", definido como a soma do montante proveniente do bónus e do montante depositado.

2. No ponto 1.5, há uma clara distinção entre o montante do bónus e o montante depositado, indicando uma diferença entre os dois. No entanto, essa distinção deixa de ser evidente em pontos posteriores, o que pode confundir o utilizador.

3. No ponto 2.2, é feita novamente uma distinção entre o montante do bónus e o montante depositado, com exemplos que os diferenciam claramente.

4. No ponto 2.6, é introduzido o conceito de saldo da conta bónus e saldo da conta principal, algo novo que antes só era mencionado em termos de montantes e não de saldos. No entanto, não fica claro se o saldo da conta bónus é a soma do montante proveniente do bónus e do montante depositado.

5. No ponto 2.7, é declarado que "o dinheiro do Bónus é utilizado até que a conta de bónus desça abaixo de 0.20€". Isto sugere que o dinheiro do bónus se refere ao dinheiro gerado pelo próprio bónus, não ao conceito de saldo da conta bónus. Talvez fosse mais apropriado utilizar o termo "saldo da conta bónus" neste contexto, dada a falta de clareza nos termos.

6. No ponto 3.1, é explicado que ao desistir da participação na campanha, ocorre a reposição do saldo da conta de bónus, resultando na perda de qualquer valor de bónus recebido.

7. O exposto no ponto 3.1 contradiz os conceitos previamente introduzidos, ao utilizar o conceito do valor do bónus recebido, e desta forma distinguir entre o montante do bónus e do depósito."

A resolution remains elusive. Your guidance and support in navigating this matter would be greatly appreciated.

By assisting me in this matter, you'll not only be aiding an individual in need but also standing against injustice and misconduct. My aim isn't merely about the monetary value involved, although it does represent a significant portion of the minimum wage in Portugal. It's about upholding principles of fairness and accountability, principles that resonate with your organization's mission.

As Casino Guru rightfully states, intervening when players are treated unfairly is essential. By shedding light on instances of non-compliance and dishonesty, we contribute to a fairer and more transparent gaming industry.

I sincerely thank you for considering my request and remain hopeful for a positive resolution.

Warm regards

I see your point of view, but I believe I explained our standpoint thoroughly. I assure you that we review all T&Cs with every update and if any rules are even slightly unfair, we consider it and lower the casino's safety index. I am afraid that we are not able to assist you further in this case. However, you can always contact the casino's licensing authority as they have more tools and options to help with issues like this.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, this complaint will now be rejected. Thank you for your understanding, I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.