카스빗 그룹 NV (3 페이지)

You know, I fear you are not going to like what I am about to say,...

Let's put legality matters aside and focus on logic and fairness for a while, such situations are merely comparable to allowing players from restricted countries. Do you know how Casino Guru approaches that?

It's stated in the Fair Gambling Codex 👈

"If a player is able to access the casino's website, open the registration form, create an account, deposit and play, it's understandable that they assume that they are allowed to play at this casino.

Some experienced or careful players might read the T&Cs and find out that their country is restricted, but these players are definitely in the minority.

Our position

It is not acceptable to let players gamble if a casino knows that they are from a restricted country and if the casino plans to refer to the rule about restricted countries whenever a player requests their first withdrawal. This is completely against the rules of fair play, as the casino is knowingly letting a player wager money without a chance to actually win something in return.

Many casinos claim that this is difficult or impossible to implement into their systems, but it is simply about comparing the player's country of residence with the list of restricted or allowed countries; therefore, we do not consider it to be that difficult on a technological level.

"

Generally speaking, from this perspective, if the player from such a country is treated like any other player, and has the same chance to deposit, play, and withdraw, we do not see a valid reason for refunds. Do you think such a player would protest if he won a jackpot? Frankly, many players use this as an advantage to claim back deposits once they realize it means playing without a risk.

I'm not saying this is about you; on the other hand, if you submit a complaint, it may end up being rejected. I just want you to know that.

Each complaint is considered seperately, so in any case, the complaint process is at your disposal here 👈

Thank you for the input regarding the other casino and the license. I'll get it checked.

It's not about whether or not we're allowed to play. I've been scammed, I sign a contract stating that I'll be refunded. This agreement is not respected. That's pure scam. It would be different if they say directly you don't get a refund. But in this case, a chargeback is promised with a contract and it is not kept!

I feel like scammed is the wrong word. They are probably just using all the delay tactics they legally can do before eventually paying. They are prompt with normal withdrawals but since there is hostility with these refund contracts they are probably pulling out all the stops to slow it down. The hostility being they will lose money on every single customer they refund as it renders the player break even and the casino has a ton of overheads.

You guys are privileged to be in the position to use the situation surrounding the Dutch market and their poor decision to skirt around restrictions, to nullify losses rendering your play +EV as it had zero risk if you lost so the only outcomes are break even or profit.

But yeah if these contracts are ironclad I expect them to take as long as they legally can and hope a bunch of people forget or give up and then they'll payout the ones who persisted. I've probably seen nearly every delay tactic under the sun at this point and mostly avoid ones that use them heavily however for some websites that are otherwise good it's just part of the game and I've gotten used to the the back and forth. Still not enjoyable when you have to deal with it but with delay-happy casinos and weird scenarios like this I feel delay tactics are just one of the weapons being used in their arsenal much like getting your losses refunded due to your protections and the mistakes of the casino is a weapon from your arsenal

It's a great opportunity to use what is essentially a loophole to claim your losses back since it allows you to double dip in retrospect.

So what i have to do now? they dont answer and ignore me on everything!

I understand your point, but I fear this is not something we can step into.

You have signed an agreement we are not familiar with, in order to get compensation for what you deem yours for some reason. Frankly, this is most likely outside of your specialization - the fair approach we aim to maintain.

Try to submit the complaint anyway, explain the events, and you will see what comes out of it. In the worst-case scenario, the complaint will be rejected. The feature is free; there is no risk involved.

Just make sure this agreement won't be breached if you make it public. As you did, actually.

I believe this paragraph to be fairly standard. Do check again, please.

I don't know the details of this contract or what/how they promised certain things.

When I have a regular withdrawal, sometimes I run into ever increasing document requests that are more and more ridiculous until they eventually verify, that is a delay/frustration tactic to encourage reversing withdrawal and playing with it or giving up. Let's assume I get verified.

Now if I'm not getting paid on a verified account after saying a week I'll chase up the casino, then if nothing satisfactory Happens after another week I'll threaten a complaint, if nothing happens within next few days I make the complaint, either with a governing body or a site like casino guru or ask gamblers (if for example they are very active and resolve alot of complaints on these sites then I'll use this instead of the governing body).

If for example I've made a complaint here but the casino has not responded then I would complain to the governing body such as kahnawake, mga, Curacao master licence (yikes but also soon to be a thing of the past). In some situations the governing body will outline that you can't make a public complaint like here on guru and would invalidate any further complaint so gotta be careful regarding that.

If after a complaint to, say, a Curacao master licence, they do not act on the the complaint or find in favour of the operator, then the last option would be legal action.

I personally just play all the moves available to me other than legal action and if I still don't win the claim then that's that. The reason I don't do lawyers and legal stuff is I am violating a whole host of terms at each casino I play at (bonus abuse, collusion that sorta stuff) so if I ever went after a casino legally I'd be opening myself up to all sorts. So for me it's a chess game, most of the time I get paid out with no problems or minor verification delays but occasionally the casino will pull out all their moves and I'll pull out all mine. Most of the time the casino folds under a complaint or a complaint to an authority gets ruled in my favour but sometimes I run out of moves and the casino wins. An example last year where I still kinda won was a casino called luckywilds. I had a five figures win and most of it was already paid out but the last chunk would never get paid out and the Curacao master licence wouldn't act so I had no moves left.

I'm not familiar with the Dutch casino stuff and what the protocols are etc etc but depending on what's in that contract I would just keep going higher up on the food chain in terms of who you can complain/harass to until you run out of options. Might be too expensive to get a law firm involved since it's only a few thousand but as far as I see it casbit got cornered, legally, into making these contracts with Dutch players and are now using all the moves in their arsenal to delay/reduce the number they'll have to pay out.

What they do is offer contracts and then ignore the people. Why they do this is indeed a time saver. in the meantime they have a new license and transferred the old accounts to their new website with their license from Costa Rica, I will be curious when they pull the plug on the old website, 

Actually the new licence depends on your location, the new sites are Curacao licensed for Canadian ips

Yes but today i speak with someone that have played on boomerang.bet its the same as Lalabet ( Casbit Group ) He get his refund with the help from Askgamblers.. but Lalabet have on Askgamblers the status closed so i cant make an complaint...

And casinoguru cant help me also i dont know why

Radka,

All I want from you is for you to contact lala.bet and tell them to contact me. Because I can't get in touch with them outside of the live chat. The live chat keeps saying default messages like I've forwarded your request. 

Hmm, I see you've filed a complaint and it's still under review. So why can't we help ? Nothing has started yet and I believe that when our team gets to the complaint, they will try to do their best if possible. So try to hang on a little longer and you will get an answer to your complaint.

Hopefully it will be resolved and the casino can be contacted. 

Hi Jaro,

yes my first complaint about lalabet i cant find anymore and i cant find any update so i made a new complaint. I hope you can help me and contact the casino and say them to solve it with me and that they dont ignore me..

Hmm, from what I've seen, it looks like you wanted a refund based on the casino not having a license. Did I understand that correctly ? If so, unfortunately we wouldn't be able to help you on that basis. Is that correct ?

listen, you dont understand me?? We havr signed an agreement and everything is ok. The only thing they dont give any answers on email and dont paid yet so i ask you to contact them and solve this issue and answer on my emails! Nothing more!!

Well, we don't have a chance to see your deal with the casino. The fact that they don't answer you is annoying, but if you made a deal with them, why don't you still have the money ? We help players on the basis of something, if the money was taken from them, not on the basis of an agreement that we know nothing about. I don't understand how you imagine that much. That we say to casino you have an agreement with the player and pay them ? 

Aye there isn't any recourse apart from through the KSA which I assume is what forced Casbit into writing all these. This is outwith the type of stuff casinoguru deals with in mediating complaints as you are getting money you lost fairly back because the company was being naughty and got smacked by your local authority which is a nice bonus for you guys.

I'd hazard a guess that the reason Casbit are rebranding into Luckywayz (and the costa rica licence for some markets) is that its cheaper than paying out all these new contracts and if they make their old company cease to exist then the contracts are rendered null and void (potentially?). Essentially they are a playing a big dick chess move in response to all these dutch players playing the "give me my losses back" chess move.

Because they are scammers… more then 80 people sign contracts maybe 1 person get paid out. Why you dont spend time on this type of scam??? You have a nice platform and you have the power to solve issues like this… people wait on their money

It's not a scam, this is extracurricular dutch authority stuff. The players are able to double dip thanks to the situation with the dutch authority. You guys lost fair and square in the grand scheme but got the opportunity to claim the losses back due to territory issues that were enforced by your local authority. They are using loopholes to get out of paying while you guys are using the situation as kind of a loophole to get losses you otherwise would not be entitled to (such as if you made the same losses in a different country).

It has nothing to do with the casino at this point, its a private agreement made between a company and an individual. It is not a scam either.

The reason they are trying to avoid paying these via legal loopholes are because it sucks for them, they already have a ton of overheads with affiliate profit share, games licencing, jurisdiction licensing, marketing, website costs, support costs etc etc. The casinos are the only ones getting scammed here due to their own greediness with the dutch territory as the players with these contracts lost fair and square and are only able to claim the money back due to the this situation and as I mentioned before Casbit are just trying to find ways to legally avoid paying you guys out, an opportunity you wouldn't have if you had played and lost in a different country. Also if you were net positive +10k euro would you still be trying to claim your deposits back?.

Stop complaining to casino guru about what is now a private matter, it became a private matter when you signed the contract and now whoever has the best legal moves wins and its looking like they've food a way to get out of paying by dissolving the old company eventually.

I have signed the contract as well and i am waiting 4 months now... i opened a complaint but Casino Guru closed it for a weird reason.

yes they do nothing at all.. leave us to our fate

ja ze doen helemaal niks.. laten ons aan ons lot over