BetPlays Casino - 일반 토론 (8 페이지)

Hi, I guess I should start by saying that I'm sorry you're having problems in the casino, and from what I've seen it's mainly because the casino accused you of muliple accounts, and you also say that verification is difficult. 

I guess I would start by saying that I don't understand much about the other cases you are talking about and where you got the number you got. If you are talking about some of your own cases, then it is probably not on this account.

Also, I would not get ahead of myself, and there is no need to talk about how the casino or we are going to somehow make a decision on the basis of 'fabricated evidence' because I do not think that is necessary when the complaint has only just started. I also don't think casinos need to send any fabricated evidence about a player because I believe that our experts would recognize that and the casino would certainly not be able to deal with the whole situation. So let's let the case develop and whenever a complaint is somehow closed, the reason for it is clearly explained. 

However, directly to the problem, when the casino talks about multiple accounts, did they confiscate the money you had in this casino? Have you never played here or does anyone in your home or on the same IP address play here? That's the first thing I can think of that might be a problem if they gave you that reason. Of course, if you're not aware of anything like that, as I said, our team will try to help you out and see where we can get to. 

As far as KYC is concerned, did you go through the process successfully or not? If you say they overwrote your personal information, have you asked them how that's possible when they basically got it wrong? That certainly shouldn't be the case and I can imagine it will cause more problems than good, but if you've brought it to their attention and told them there's something wrong and their system doesn't have it right and you can't get it fixed, then I don't see any issue on your part.

But let's try to line up a complaint because I'm just an admin on the forum and Nick will handle it for now. I wish everything will turn out fair.

> They also say that the main reason is that the casinos claim multiple accounts, which makes it difficult to verify.

Is this a claim made by the casino?

> I'm not sure about the other cases you're talking about or where you got your numbers from. If you're talking about your own case, it's probably not about this account.

The number of consecutive rejected rulings in the complaints forum regarding Betplays.

> But to get right to the point, when the casino talks about multiple accounts, did they confiscate any money you had at this casino?

Yes, I play casinos, not sports betting, and they have confiscated my funds.

> Or is there anyone playing here in your house or on the same IP address?

They are not. Please review Betting Rule 3. and Rule 9. in the Terms and Conditions by using the following link

I am claiming these

However, they have avoided giving any specific explanations about it, and they have changed my old address without my permission in the automatic recognition for KYC.

My concern is that Betplays is sending fabricated evidence to the arbitrator.

They have not provided me with any direct physical evidence (which does not exist in the first place) and have only made one-sided statements.

As you can see in this discussion, many users have had their items confiscated.

I understand that arbitrators are well aware that sports betting is outside their area of expertise, but regardless of whether it is sports or casinos,

The problem is that there are far too many confiscations on this site.

The claims forum has seen 28 consecutive rejections.

Looking at this series of rulings from a bird's-eye view, it is clear that the casinos are concerned about malicious users.

Is this a continuous phenomenon? (It is an international casino, and it does not seem to be concentrated in a particular country.)

I find this very suspicious, and I wonder if Jaro doesn't suspect this?

I would like you to think beyond the assumption that the casino will not cheat.

I suspect that Betplays has sent, and will continue to send, maliciously fabricated evidence to the arbitrators.

＞カジノ側が複数のアカウントを主張していることが主な原因であり、確認が難しいともおっしゃっています。

カジノ側がこのような主張をされているのですか？

＞あなたが話している他の事例について、またあなたが得た数字がどこから得たものなのか、私にはよく分からないということです。もしあなたが自分の事例について話しているのであれば、それはおそらくこのアカウントに関するものではないでしょう

Betplaysに関するクレームフォーラムの連続した却下された裁定の件数です。

＞しかし、問題に直接関わるのですが、カジノ側が複数のアカウントについて話しているとき、彼らはあなたがこのカジノで持っていたお金を没収したのでしょうか

はい。私はスポーツ賭博ではなくカジノをプレイして、彼らにより資金の没収を受けています。

＞それともあなたの家や同じ IP アドレスでここでプレイしている人はいますか？

いません。彼らは利用規約のPlease review Betting Rule 3. and Rule 9. by using the following link

これらを主張しております

しかし、彼らはそれに関する具体的な説明を避けておりますし、KYCに関する自動認識での、私の古い住所を勝手に書き換えるという行いをしております。

私が懸念しているのはBetplays側が捏造した証拠を裁定者に送り付ける行為です。

彼らは私に直接的な物証を提供せず(そもそも存在しない)、一方的な発言だけをしています。

こちらのディスカッションでも、多くのユーザーが没収措置をうけています。

裁定者はスポーツ賭博は専門外といいう周知をしているのは承知しておりますが、スポーツ、カジノを問わず

このサイトでは余りにも没収措置が多いという点です。

クレームフォーラムの方では28件連続した却下が続いております。

この連続した裁定数を俯瞰的に見た場合に、カジノ側が懸念している悪質なユーザーというのがそれほどまでに

連続して紛れ込むものなのか？(国際カジノであり、特定国に偏っているわけでもなさそうです)

この点が非常に怪しいと思っていますし、Jaro氏はこれに疑いをもたれないのでしょうか？

カジノ側が不正をしないという前提を捨てて考えていただきたい。

私はBetplays側は悪意を以て捏造した証拠を過去も、これからも裁定者に送り続けるだろうという推察をします。

Since my complaint information has been disclosed, I think that will be the main focus.

However, I would like to urge them to openly debate the fabricated evidence they provide.

If Betplays is not doing this with any malicious intent, it is a crude detection of IP addresses.

I think this is the limit.

This casino site is not particularly well known in Japan at the moment, and I can't imagine that anyone even plays on it in the area where I live.

Since the date circled in red, Betplays' claims have been accepted in 28 consecutive cases, and I wonder if such malicious users have been allowed to sneak in so many times.

We also encourage you to check out our 27 review forums.

The positive reviews listed here are from two novice users in the past year. I myself am a novice user, and the CasinoGuru system is a system that gives a certain evaluation value to the player's activity record.

The ratings given by these players are negative.

I can't help but feel that the ratings on this site are too biased.



私のクレーム情報が開示されたのでそちらがメインで行われることになると思います。

しかし、私が主張したいのは彼らが提供する捏造された証拠をオープンにして議論していただきたい。

Betplays側が万が一にも悪意をもってやってないというのならば、それはIPアドレスの大雑把な検知

これに限ると私は思っています。

日本国内でこちらのカジノサイトは現時点で有名どころではなく、私が住んでいるエリア内ですらプレイしている人がいるとは到底考えられません。

赤い四角で囲った日付以降、28件連続してBetplays側の主張が通っており、連続してここまで悪質なユーザーが紛れ込むものか？というのが私の思いです。

また、27件あるレビューフォーラムを皆さんにも確認していただきたい。

こちらに記載してある肯定的な意見は過去1年において、ノービスユーザーが2名です。私自身、ノービスのユーザーですが、カジノグルのシステムはプレイヤーの活動実績にはある種、一定の評価値を与えているシステムです。

それらのプレイヤーが与える評価値はネガティブです。

このサイトの評価値は余りにも偏りが見える気がしてなりません。



About the first question, I just summarized what is the main problem according to your post, so I concluded whether the casino said that based on what you wrote before.

As for rejected complaints, I understand, I had a feeling that you were only talking about your own, so now it's clear to me.

Since your money was confiscated, I am very curious how the case will proceed. What will be important in it will be mainly on the basis of what it really was and whether they will be able to explain and prove that it is multiple accounts as you mentioned.

As far as the evidence is concerned, the casinos usually do not provide it to the players and when they give them a reason for the violation it is often general, so that they can protect themselves and the players don't circumvent it. 

Unfortunately when you talk about sports betting we can't help with that and that's why these complaints are rejected, but at least I always try to assist and give the players links where they could also file a complaint and maybe they could help them there.

Also, whether this is a continuing phenomenon is hard to say, some casinos might do it on purpose and not tell the player anything, just block the account and don't even communicate with us. I have seen this casino trying to address complaints as well, so we will see what happens in your case.

However, I don't want to predict what BetPlays will send and we'd better wait for it. It always has to be clear why the player's money was taken and whether he broke their rules. If they send anything "fabricated" then they could have more problems than benefits, because their reputation with the players would decrease a lot in my opinion.

The safety index doesn't include the user reviews you're talking about, those are gaming experiences and believe me, we're too careful about what we approve and reject. There is a process behind it and we try to do it as best as we can.

From what I've seen, the casino is more focused on Europe, even according to our review, and they don't seem to have a lot of players in Asia.

As for the other complaints, trust me, every single one of them is handled in detail by our team and we don't reject anything on the basis of feelings or anything like that, but on the basis of facts. 

We will see how it will be in your case.

Dear Casino Guru

You have given this scam casino a safety score that has no connection with reality in any way! I have sent you a complaint which you refuse to accept. A complaint based on the fact that Betplays opened my account without my asking them to do so - mind you an account that I had closed due to my gambling addiction for Casinogames. After they had opened the account they were kind enough to send me an email to tell me that my CLOSED account had now been opened - and that it was a normal procedure.

I have sent you all the evidence, yet you refuse to accept it. You justify it by saying that I cannot prove that they knew that my account was closed due to gambling addiction. This despite the fact that I forwarded emails from Betplays in which they admit to having made a mistake, but that they did not intend to pay back the amount that I subsequently lost. 

I simply do not understand why you do not want to help in such a case - and I do NOT understand AT ALL that you have given this site a high safety rating! 

When casinos like Betplays suddenly start opening accounts belonging to gambling addicts without the gambling addict asking for it, there is NO WAY such a casino should have a rating anywhere near HIGH. You should know that! 

Sorry for my harsh language in this message, but I simply do not understand your way of glorifying this casino.

We're really sorry about this whole situation, but unfortunately our team has to reject your complaint as per insufficient evidence.

Veronika nicely and clearly wrote:

"I'm sorry, but it's not sufficient to simply state that you want to permanently close your account. You need to clearly explain the reason; otherwise, we won't have a solid basis for our discussions with the casino.

Unfortunately, without further evidence, we are forced to close this complaint. Thank you for your understanding. I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future."

Unfortunately, we are not able to do more in this case.

Unfortunately my claim was denied based on IP address, which is highly unlikely if it was using the same device (same device ID) and this refers to my laptop, but that individual argument is closed and probably won't be reconsidered.

I only use one email address, and my registration information is automatically saved. I also bookmark all sites, so there is no chance of duplicate registrations.

> Creating multiple accounts in a very short period of time using the same device (same device ID), playing similar games and claiming the same bonuses

If I were to use multiple accounts to play, I would never play the same game, and I would never play from the same device. The price of the device is low, and considering the risk of it being confiscated, I would not take the risk of playing on the same device.

Those who lose when playing here are lucky, because when they win they are faced with this issue only to have to endure a lot of stress and effort, and then have arguments based on fabricated evidence.

Casino gurus have turned a blind eye to the casino site's string of consecutive claim denials, instead arguing the issue individually.

The number of claims rejected here is 33 in a row, and all of BetPlays' arguments have been accepted. I focused on this point and asked for a fair review, but they did not seem to take the number of cases into consideration in their past and current rulings.

I would like some casino gurus to anonymously investigate this casino site. This casino site is definitely cheating.

I am not recommending this casino site because of the IP address. I don't think there are any users in my area who use this casino site, but they still confiscated my IP address.

No matter how much the casino denies the IP address allegations after the fact, there is nothing users can do if the casino is basing their argument on fabricated or inaccurate detection capabilities.

This casino site has a very broad IP address range and is believed to be taking measures to confiscate IP addresses as soon as they detect any advances within that area.

I have registered and played on over 100 sites so far, but I have only had one bonus ineligible due to my IP address, and this one have had my money confiscated due to my IP address.

I know of one casino site similar to this one. If a past IP address duplication is brought up as a problem, the first one will be given priority no matter how much you explain it.

Since the site requires that you apply in advance to receive a bonus, it only takes a little time and effort to register and the amount you deposit.

In the case of this casino site, they will probably use a list of past users' IP addresses as a basis for their withdrawal process.

(The first person explained that the registration occurred in a short period of time, but I was not shown any evidence of this.)

This is a highly malicious site. This method allows them to confiscate users' winnings little by little without significantly lowering their reputation on CasinoGuru.

As a result, there is such a huge discrepancy between the number of complaints and the discussion and user review ratings.

You should be careful when playing at this casino.

When it comes to gameplay, I choose minor models that I don't even want to play, so that I won't be playing the same games as anyone else.

It is unclear what area the IP addresses cover, but if they detect a user who is 100km away, they will lose without a debate.

Even if you get past these, they will intentionally change your personal information. They will open up a window with bonus offers, and if there are any issues you cannot deal with, they will ruthlessly confiscate your winnings.

Perhaps this casino site had no problems when it was first launched.

This is because duplication of IP addresses is unlikely to occur.

However, the longer a site is in operation, the more IP addresses and play information will be accumulated.

When browsing this forum, the number of confiscations and complaints is increasing year by year. I expect that users who register later will be at a disadvantage little by little. If you are thinking of registering, I recommend that you play at another casino site.

残念ながら私のクレームはIPアドレスを根拠にして没収をされました。同じデバイス (同じデバイス ID) を使用して、これが私のノートパソコンを指しているのならば絶対にありえませんが、個別の議論は終了したと言って恐らく再考されることはないのでしょう。

私は一つのメールアドレスしか使用してませんし、登録情報も自動保存しております。ブックマークも欠かさずしており、重複登録はありえません。

＞同じデバイス (同じデバイス ID) を使用して、同様のゲームプレイを行い、同じボーナスを請求しながら、非常に短い期間で複数のアカウントを作成した

私が複数アカウントを使用してプレイするなら、そもそも同じゲームをプレイするなどありえませんし、同じデバイスからのプレイもありえません。デバイスの価格も知れてますし、こういった没収リスクを考慮すれば同一のデバイスでプレイするリスクなど負いませんよ。

ここで遊ぶ際に負けた方たちは幸運でしょう。勝利したときに初めてこの問題に直面し多大なストレスと労力を要した上で、捏造された証拠を元に議論がなされます。

カジノの第一人者たちは個別の問題を議論するというやり方で、このカジノサイトの連続したクレームの却下件数には目をつぶりました。

ここでのクレームの却下件数は33連続でBetPlaysの主張を全て採用しております。私はこの点に着目して公正な審査をお願いしたが、彼らは過去の裁定と現在の裁定には、件数の問題は考慮しなかったようです。

カジノ第一人者たちは、何人かでこのカジノサイトを身分を明かさずに調査してほしいです。このカジノサイトは間違いなく不正行為を働いております。

IPアドレスを根拠に言われていますが、これに関してこのカジノサイトでのプレイをお勧めしません。私の居住エリア付近でこのカジノサイトを触れているユーザーがいるとは思えませんが、それでもIPアドレスを根拠に没収をされました。

IPアドレスに関しての後出しに関してだけはどれだけ否定をしようにも、カジノ側が捏造や不正確な検出能力を元に議論した場合、ユーザーには成すすべがありません。

このカジノサイトはIPアドレスの範囲を非常に広範囲にとらえており、先駆者がエリア内にいた時点で没収をしてくる措置を取っていると考えられます。

私はこれまで100サイト以上のサイトを登録して遊んでいますが、IPアドレスを理由にボーナスの対象外が1件と、IPアドレスを理由に没収はこちらの1件だけです。

これに似たカジノサイトを私は1つ知っております。過去のIPアドレスの重複を問題として出された場合は、どれだけ説明をしても先駆者が優先される措置を取ります。

そのサイトはボーナスの付与自体が事前申請形式なので登録の手間と、入金した金額分の問題だけになります。

このカジノサイトの場合は出金処理をした段階で後出しで過去のユーザーのIPアドレスのリストを根拠にしてくるのでしょう。

(短期間で登録があったと第一人者は説明をしましたが、私はその証拠を示されまていません)

悪質性が高いサイトであります。このやり方ならばカジノグル内では評価を著しく低下させずに、ユーザーの賞金を少しずつ没収することができます。

そのためクレームの件数と、ディスカッション、ユーザーレビューの評価が余りにも乖離があるのです。

このカジノで遊ぶ際には気を付けた方がいいです。

ゲームプレイは絶対に第三者と被らないような、遊びたくもないマイナーな機種を選択する。

IPアドレスに関してはどの程度のエリアを捉えているのか不明ですが、彼らの検知に引っかかれば100km離れてるユーザーだったとしても議論にならずに負けることでしょう。

これらを突破しても彼らは個人情報を意図的に書き換えもしてきます。ボーナスオファーで窓口を広げておき、ユーザーが対処できない問題で彼らは容赦なく賞金の没収をします。

恐らくこのカジノサイトは開設当初は問題がなかったのでしょう。

IPアドレスの重複が起きづらいからです。

ですが、運営期間が長くなればなるほど、IPアドレスやプレイ情報は蓄積されていきます。

このフォーラムなどを閲覧していると、年々没収や苦情の件数が増えている傾向にあります。後から登録をするユーザーは少しずつ不利な状況に置かれると予想します。新規登録を考えている方は別のカジノサイトで遊戯されることをお勧めします。

Unfortunately it was confiscated.

I'm sure the team's decision will not be overturned, but there is a huge discrepancy between the 33 consecutive complaint rejections and the user reviews and discussion ratings. I would like you to lower the safety index of this casino site.

If extensive IP address overlap is cited as the reason, there is nothing the user can do, and registration is unlikely to occur in a short period of time.

The only thing that could be wrong with their claim is if you could look at the money trail of the cryptocurrency address I use.

If I were the kind of user who would play with such a duplicate account, there would likely be a cryptocurrency connection.

残念ながら没収措置を取られました。

チームの判断が覆ることはきっとないでしょうが、33連続のクレーム却下と、ユーザーレビュー、ディスカッションの評価には余りにも乖離があります。このカジノサイトの安全指数を下げていただきたい。

IPアドレスの広範な重複を理由に言われた場合、ユーザーには成すすべがありませんし、短期間での登録もありえません。

彼らの主張に誤りがある唯一の指摘として、私が使用している暗号通貨アドレスのお金の流れを調べていただけませんか？

仮に私がそのような重複アカウントでプレイするようなユーザーならば、暗号通貨に結びつきがあるはずです。

I have a question for you, Jaro .

I don't think there is any prospect of this issue being resolved even if we complain to the licensor.

Is there a website where you can actually register, play games, and verify that casinos are engaging in malicious activities like in this case?

A casino site using a pirated provider called F1Casino also had a safety index of 8.8, but I was convinced that the RTP was definitely faked, so when I searched for information online, I found a community that investigated the game.

My contention here is that the issue is not one of fraud on the part of the game provider, but rather that fraud exists in the casino's operating policies.

But there aren't many ways to verify this.

One idea we considered was to have friends who live far away try the game out for themselves as a way to test it out, but even if we based that on the results, we probably wouldn't get this amount back, and the casino probably wouldn't be found guilty of any wrongdoing.

Therefore, if there are any completely third-party, authoritative community groups on online casinos, we would like to request an investigation from such groups.

Jaroさんにお聞きしたいことがあります。

この問題はライセンス元へ苦情を申し立てても、解決する見通しがあるとは思えません。

今回のようにカジノ側が悪質な行為をしていることを実際に登録をし遊戯をして検証していただけるウェブサイトというのは存在しないのでしょうか？

F1Casinoという海賊版のプロバイダを採用しているカジノサイトでもこちらは安全指数を8.8与えていましたが、その際にRTPを間違いなく偽装していると確信して、ネット上で情報収集をした際にゲームを調査するコミュニティを見つけたことがあります。

今回の問題はゲームプロバイダに不正があるという主張ではなく、カジノの運用方針に不正があるというのが私の主張です。

しかし、これを検証する方法はあまり多くありません。

案の一つとして遠方に住む友人などに対して、検証を兼ねて実際に遊戯してもらうことも考えていましたが、その結果を元にしても恐らくこの金額が返ってくることはないですし、カジノの不正が認められることはないでしょう。

ですので、完全なる第三者で、オンラインカジノに権威のあるコニュニティグループなどがあれば、そういった集団に調査依頼を申し込みたいと思っています。

I'm sorry that we couldn't proceed with your complaint any further, but there is not much our complaint team could do due to the circumstances mentioned in the complaint thread, and Michal has explained it to you:

"I have now gathered information and evidence from the casino team to understand the situation. The initial concern regarding the address change appears to have been resolved by the casino team, so there are no issues with your address. However, the investigation has uncovered additional factors.

We have received evidence of multiple accounts being created by you in quite close succession from the same or very similar IP addresses, using the same device (with the same device ID), and engaging in similar gameplay while claiming the same bonuses. This cannot be dismissed as mere coincidence, especially considering this previous response from you: "As the head of the household, I live alone and no one else can operate my device except for me, right?"

The casino adheres to a strict policy in these matters, and its actions align with the terms and conditions outlined in the rules, as previously communicated by the casino team. Given the evidence, we have to agree with the casino's decision and must close your complaint as rejected."

I hope next time you will be more careful when creating an account at an online casino. It is very important to read the terms every time and stick to those, of course.

Wishing you all the best, and if there is anything we could help you with in the future, please know that we are here for you whenever possible.